Youtube disables the dislike count, both users and creators revolt

Pete

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I think the downvoting thing is far more site-specific or format-specific culturally than it generally. On Reddit, someone downvotes you, you *might* go downvote them back... but that depends which subreddit(s) you're part of. And certainly not everyone is going to react the same way.

I don't think, for example, that the EA staffer who wrote the most downvoted post in Reddit history went looking for the 600k+ downvotes to downvote each of them.

I also don't spend enough time on Reddit to have a strong sense of whether a downvote on a person or a downvote on a post would translate the same way - certainly the reputation mechanic of old in forums was person-centric not content-centric, which made it *ripe* for abuse.

On YouTube though, yes you absolutely can go downvote channels but the reality *tends* to be that people downvote individual content they don't like rather than the body of work by a creator - the up/down votes are per content which helps creators shape content by what people vote for.

But hiding downvotes (while not hiding upvotes) just makes negatively-rated videos look less negative which only benefits those putting out unpopular content. But, of course, that's the point.
 

R0binHood

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I don't think, for example, that the EA staffer who wrote the most downvoted post in Reddit history went looking for the 600k+ downvotes to downvote each of them.

They actually changed the system last month so individual subreddits can choose to re-enable the ability to vote on archived posts, which means the EA post has started to get even more downvotes just this last month after having previously been static and archived for years 😄

 

LeadCrow

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'Dislike' as a rating is agressive, 'disagree' is neutral, and neither contribute to discussions.
In the context of forums, excess reliance on ratings is negative. Sure, it helps casuals and mobile users get a modicum of interaction going, but its not as good as it may seem if it doesnt result in written replies discussing subjects. Forums need contributors, not first posts that receive 5000 ratings and not a single reply.

Consider a well written argumentation about a subject - positive reception generally needs no further explanation as the author already shared his arguments and responders specifically agree with those, but negative contributes nothing. Feeling that this aspect of forums is being lost, as webmasters focus on improductive mobile users that now form a large audicence content and ads can be displayed to, as opposed to the actual contributors whose bulk overwhelmingly still posts from desktops and laptops (or in particular, from machines with physical keyboards and easy multiwindows multitasking).
 

mysiteguy

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Yeah the dislike/downvote feature can cause some unnecessary problem and tension among users. On Reddit, if I ever found out someone downvoted a post I made(not always easy but sometimes yes I could), I’d hunt this person down and downvote his next few posts. In the past I did something similar on VB forums that had negative rep enabled. If they gave me bad rep, I gave them bad rep back. Interestingly, most of these forums eventually ended up removing the negative rep feature, that should tell a lot about how this system is prone to abuse. With this being said, I am sure I ain’t the only one who act like this, it’s human nature and most people behave like I do.

I don't think most humans act like that. I've admin'd some massive boards, and it's always been a tiny minority who act this way.
 

sanction9

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Yeah the dislike/downvote feature can cause some unnecessary problem and tension among users. On Reddit, if I ever found out someone downvoted a post I made(not always easy but sometimes yes I could), I’d hunt this person down and downvote his next few posts. In the past I did something similar on VB forums that had negative rep enabled. If they gave me bad rep, I gave them bad rep back. Interestingly, most of these forums eventually ended up removing the negative rep feature, that should tell a lot about how this system is prone to abuse. With this being said, I am sure I ain’t the only one who act like this, it’s human nature and most people behave like I do.
You're definitely not the only one, hence the likely reason for the Youtube changes. It's done on a much larger scale with certain content, especially politics these days. People routinely dislike or downvote content by the opposition party, usually without having any idea of what's actually being said. It's a herd mentality.
 

DigNap15

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I have likes and dislikes on my forum (which is very politics based)
We have big debates from our members on them.
So like them, some dislike them.
They can be abused
Eg disliking every comment from a member that you do not like
Or disliking every video about Joe Biden before you have even read it

I like to see dislikes on HowToVideos, there are often many of them, some are very good, some are very poor.
 

Joel R

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Some interesting articles regarding dislike on another large community platform:

Also, maybe it's just me, but just because my users say they want something doesn't actually mean they understand the full repercussions of what they want.
 

AdamD

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I found it quite useful myself.
I used to have the magic actions plugin installed for youtube, which would let you see the like/dislike votes on a video in the video listings
Made it easier to find fake videos or videos with clickbait titles, which I really can't stand.
 

HallofFamer

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I don't think most humans act like that. I've admin'd some massive boards, and it's always been a tiny minority who act this way.

Most humans do act this way, though only a minority will admit they do this. I've been on many boards, and at least 90% will do what I will do.
 

Pete

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I think that says more about the boards you were on than about anything else. If “the majority” truly acted the way you describe, no place that supports downvoting would ever work.
 

Nev_Dull

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Do they? I'm not convinced that people downvote content for valid reasons (e.g., bad information) or because they don't like what's said or who said it.
 

Pete

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Do they? I'm not convinced that people downvote content for valid reasons (e.g., bad information) or because they don't like what's said or who said it.
The reality is that subsets of the population do both. Some will downvote because bad information, some will downvote out of disagreement (regardless of veracity) and some will downvote simply because who it is.

But you have no way to know *why*. All you can do is infer from trends - assume some subset of the trend is baseline so you’re looking for individual outliers. If your baseline is 10% of views turn into likes and 1% of views turn into dislikes, you can infer that a singular large shift from either (e.g. more than 2 standard deviations from the mean), you can infer that the feedback is about the individual content rather than author-feedback bias.
 

R0binHood

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The co-founder of YouTube has edited the description of the first ever video uploaded to the site, to voice his opposition to the change:




FEezOWNUUAEY4tG
 

HallofFamer

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I think that says more about the boards you were on than about anything else. If “the majority” truly acted the way you describe, no place that supports downvoting would ever work.
Oh thats funny. You don’t know me and why do you think you are in any position to tell what boards I use? :LOL: In fact, I am on various kinds forums, ranging from technology, education, sports, gaming, etc, and yes I can guarantee you that most posters behave the way I do.

The boards that support downvoting/disliking can work if and only if they hide the names of the downvoters, why do you think places like reddit wont tell you who downvoted you? Though of course, its always possible to infer who may have downvoted you anyway, I've learned how to do this on reddit, if the post has only 1-3 downvotes its not very hard for me to tell sometimes.
 
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Nev_Dull

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But you have no way to know *why*. All you can do is infer from trends - assume some subset of the trend is baseline so you’re looking for individual outliers. If your baseline is 10% of views turn into likes and 1% of views turn into dislikes, you can infer that a singular large shift from either (e.g. more than 2 standard deviations from the mean), you can infer that the feedback is about the individual content rather than author-feedback bias.
And therein lies the problem. It's much better to have people actually post what they don't like about the content rather than relying on inference and guesswork from a downvote or upvote.

Back on topic, the difference with YT is that both likes and dislikes offer the same metric from the creator's view; measuring engagement. The dislikes are more useful for users deciding whether to watch the video, which is why YT wants to remove them so we will click on more of the low quality (or outright wrong) drivel that gets pumped out by large companies.
 

HallofFamer

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I have likes and dislikes on my forum (which is very politics based)
We have big debates from our members on them.
So like them, some dislike them.
They can be abused
Eg disliking every comment from a member that you do not like
Or disliking every video about Joe Biden before you have even read it

I like to see dislikes on HowToVideos, there are often many of them, some are very good, some are very poor.

I think another issue with the approach is that, people dont understand or care about the guidelines or rules about the like/dislike or upvote/downvote system. On Reddit for instance, you are supposed to downvote posts that fall into these 3 categories:

1. Posts that are off-topic or irrelevant to discussion.
2. Posts that are offensive, rude or blatantly personal-insulting.
3. Advertising or trolling posts.

Apparently, Reddit never intended the downvote button to be used for 'I dont like what you are saying' or 'I disagree with your viewpoint', but people will do that anyway. At first I tried to be a good citizen and abide to the rule/guideline, even explaining to some users that you aint supposed to abuse the downvote button. But once I saw people would downvote my posts and abuse this feature anyway, I decided to give it up and just do what other people were doing. I try to be nice at the beginning, but what they do to me, I do to them. Its just that simple.
:)
 

Pete

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Which brings me back to my point previously.

If you go on forums that already have this behaviour and perpetuate it, are you really asserting that ”everyone is like you”?

The reality is that being part of a population means following the tribe to some degree - if everyone else acts a certain way in the population there is social pressure to do the same, to fit in and adhere to what was normalised.

The fact you admit, enthusiastically, to actively participating in such methods of engagement suggests to me that it is part of what you like about those forums (that such methods are available) and that there is some inherent self-selection bias.

Consider this forum. It has negative reactions but they receive limited use. I think we could do a poll to see why people don’t use it and I suspect we’d get some people who don’t use it because they feel they’d be outed as non-confirming to majority view, some who feel they’d be marginalised for being negative, and some who don’t use it because while there are negative reactions this forum has broadly normalised using our words to indicate disagreement and dissent.

Its a fascinating subject to sit back and watch play out.
 

HallofFamer

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My last post was about how people misunderstand or misuse the dislike/downvote feature due to ignorance or lack of knowledge, while the earlier discussion was about what happens if you downvote/dislike a person(in which the likely consequence is that if the person knows you did this, he will downvote/dislike your posts back). These are totally different things and you should've read properly and understood what was written before making that comment.
 

zappaDPJ

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The reality is that being part of a population means following the tribe to some degree - if everyone else acts a certain way in the population there is social pressure to do the same, to fit in and adhere to what was normalised.

In my experience there's a whole lot of truth in that and it's something that fascinates me. It also makes me wonder what it is that sets the tone.

As an example I don't own a TV so I get my news from multiple on-line sources in an effort to find a common denominator. That's my excuse for reading the Daily Mail and a story slightly critical of a Kardashian using the deaths at a music festival to further her own on-line presence. What I found interesting is that out of hundreds of comments there was only one that was remotely positive, the rest were generally well beyond hate and loathing.

Not the best example I'm sure but the level of vitriol surprised me. So what set the tone? Was it the Mail, the story, the first comment, the lack of moderation or the demographic of the reader base?

Consider this forum. It has negative reactions but they receive limited use. I think we could do a poll to see why people don’t use it and I suspect we’d get some people who don’t use it because they feel they’d be outed as non-confirming to majority view, some who feel they’d be marginalised for being negative, and some who don’t use it because while there are negative reactions this forum has broadly normalised using our words to indicate disagreement and dissent.

As far as I'm aware I've rarely if ever given a negative reaction here. At one time you could see the who and the what when it came to giving out reactions but I can't locate that function anymore.

The reason why I don't do that here or anywhere else for that matter is it seem pointless. I view it in the same vein as telling a member their forum theme resembles a pile of dingo's kidneys. Personally I'd rather try and give constructive criticism, suggesting why the theme doesn't work for me and what I'd do to improve it.
 

Paul M

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The boards that support downvoting/disliking can work if and only if they hide the names of the downvoters.
Clearly not the case since I can disagree with your post here, and its not hidden ;) TAZ is still working just fine. :)
You can also disagree (negative) rep on my forum, and clearly see who did it (its not imploded yet, and is 18.5 years old now).

As to the activities you describe, we have a clear rule on "revenge repping".
Anyone deemed to be giving out [revenge] negative reps get their wings clipped.
 
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