XenForo revokes KiwiFarms' license

sixlxvi

Participant
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
58
I don't have a comment to make about the censorship concern.

But...

I've never heard of that forum until today, and... yikes. I'd like to know how that forum came to be and how they managed to get it as active as it is. I mean, I'm not surprised a place like that exists. The members there seem very passionate about their mission. Yikes.
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,121
I'm not really sure how I feel about this.

I detest censorship because the people clamoring for it never seem to have morals that align with mine and because it always serves to promote the very thing it wants to hide away. I also believe rather passionately that people with abhorant views should be exposed and challenged rather than silenced.

On the other hand there should be limits and I guess I need to accept that it's the law which sets those limits. If there is content on KiwiFarms that puts them on the wrong side of the law, I have no problem with their license being revoked.

For info; Samuel Collingwood Smith who claims to be the instigator of the license cancellation is not a major politician by any description of my understanding. He was employed as a Labour Party fundraiser and organiser plus he did serve as a Borough Counselor for three years before switching sides to the Conservatives. My point being his opinion carries no more weight than you or I.
 

Joel R

Fan
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
933
1. I'm a tad jealous of their online activity. This is a busy site.

2. On the bright side, no more renewal fees!

3. It's incredibly naive for anyone to think that you can do anything you want on the web. Let's stop pretending that you have total freedom to say anything, do anything, sell anything, post anything you want on the web and that your bleating cries for "internet freedom" are anywhere near the level of depravity of certain corners of the web.
 

FTL

Adherent
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Messages
367
XF staff have been at pains to say that they don't get involved with websites' business and that revoking a license really doesn't happen even though there's a clause in the licence which says that they can. However, it's good to know that there is a certain threshold where they'll do just that. Thankfully, my site (see siggy) isn't at all controversial, so won't fall foul of this clause.

Not passing judgement here and if I'd created platform software of any kind, I'd put in a similar clause too. Don't wanna be associated with things like terrorism / bomb making, racism, conspiracy theories and the like, do I? In fact, my Forum Rules have such a clause in them.
 

Chris D

XenForo Developer
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
868
I detest censorship because the people clamoring for it never seem to have morals that align with mine and because it always serves to promote the very thing it wants to hide away. I also believe rather passionately that people with abhorant views should be exposed and challenged rather than silenced.
We haven't attempted to censor with them. We've decided that we no longer want to do business with them.
 

TrixieTang

Custom Usertitle
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
8,563
For the avoidance of doubt, this person is not the reason, nor the instigator for the license cancellation.

This is not why we revoked their license.

Interesting. Obviously the reason is confidential, but can either of you confirm whether or not Josh a.k.a. Null was informed of the exact reasoning behind his license's revocation?
 

AdamD

Devotee
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,901
I've never heard of that forum until today, and... yikes. I'd like to know how that forum came to be and how they managed to get it as active as it is. I mean, I'm not surprised a place like that exists. The members there seem very passionate about their mission. Yikes.
I'd not heard of it either, but a quick read and it didn't surprise me to see that kind of content.
To be honest it's basically the gutter dwelling trash of humanity who engage on forums like that
You only have to read some of the absurd comments people like that make in reply to youtube videos to know how low people can sink.
I'm glad their license was revoked, even though it probably means very little in the grand scheme of things, although, won't it block access to the resources area?
 

FTL

Adherent
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Messages
367
I'd not heard of it either, but a quick read and it didn't surprise me to see that kind of content.
To be honest it's basically the gutter dwelling trash of humanity who engage on forums like that
You only have to read some of the absurd comments people like that make in reply to youtube videos to know how low people can sink.
I'm glad their license was revoked, even though it probably means very little in the grand scheme of things, although, won't it block access to the resources area?
It does. It also crucially blocks access to software updates which are really important. They might be able to live without the tech support that's also revoked though.
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,121
We haven't attempted to censor with them. We've decided that we no longer want to do business with them.

My comment was aimed more at the bold claims made by Samuel Collingwood Smith than anything else and having spent a few minutes browsing the site in question I can understand why you wouldn't want to do business with them.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,519
We haven't attempted to censor with them. We've decided that we no longer want to do business with them.
I'm not sure I follow the logic of this decision.

If the owner of such a site comes looking to buy your software, I can understand choosing not to accommodate them. Revoking (or not renewing) the licence at this point, however, seems a bit counter productive. It doesn't prevent them from continuing to use the software they currently have (and you still associated with it). It also puts your company in a less than flattering light; appearing to be a self-styled moral arbiter of what's acceptable in forums.

Obviously, there may be more going on here than we're aware of, but that doesn't matter. This doesn't seem like a good business decision if it ends up tarnishing you more than that forum owner.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
660
It also puts your company in a less than flattering light; appearing to be a self-styled moral arbiter of what's acceptable in forums.
This seems to apply to your train of thought. Have you never banned a site member from using your site for any reason who might harass your members or tarnish you/your sites reputation?
I don't agree with your observation and conclusion.
This doesn't seem like a good business decision if it ends up tarnishing you more than that forum owner.
Unfounded assumption perhaps?
 

Slavik

Participant
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
86
This doesn't seem like a good business decision if it ends up tarnishing you more than that forum owner.

We arent worried one slightest bit in being tarnished for our decision on that site.

If anyone would like to go browse the content of that site for an hour and come back to us and say we should continue to do business with them, I await your reasoning.
 

Deathstarr

Forum Owner
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
403
I looked at the site but I guess Im to old to understand the nature of the forum. I have 0 problems with xenforo terminating the forums license due to its thier software. Xenforo has the final say on what and when, how. They built it, own it, distibute it, upgrade. The License Agreement has verbage that they can and will when nessassary.
At the bottom of the forum it reads life free or die? Based on what? I see nothing on the forum that would even remote to the live free or die slogan that they are being opressed in any way shape or form? 1776 hositng is also Owned by the same owner??? Maybe.

Whe I searched for the hosting company another similar forum comes up in almost the same format and such as the forum that the license was revoked but much smaller.
 
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