Will you stay with Xenforo even if 2.2 doesn't live up to your expectations?

Will you stay with Xenforo even if 2.2 doesn't live up to your expectations?

  • Yes

    Votes: 65 76.5%
  • No

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Unsure/Undecided

    Votes: 11 12.9%
  • Other (Respond in the comments)

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • Total voters
    85

Karll

Adherent
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
452
Is it ethical to link to another blog
Yes, as long as you're only quoting a short bit of the article. You're giving the blog more readers. It's no different than posting a short quote + link to a newspaper article.
Would I just be showing my members that there is another blog that they might join?
I don't think it's a problem as long as it's just a blog without any actual forum attached to it. Blogs in themselves are not competitors, in my view.
 

BGObsession

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
131
After looking at some of the videos, I won't leave XF but may stay with 2.1 at least for awhile. I get the concept of the 4 forum type organization, but we have an answer forum add-on and I find people insist on treating answer threads like a discussion thread and won't vote for 'answers' very often. I do like the XF version better than the one I'm using. I also have RM installed and use as an article manager but folks tend not to visit/use it very much as most of the content is also in forum threads. The 'Articles' forum type in 2.2 looks pretty nice, but I'm not sure what I'd do if I had it installed. It would be a lot of work to try to transition to it and retire RM. As far as some of the other changes, like the revamped posting options toolbar, that seems like change for change's sake. I actually have no problem with a busy toolbar as my options are all a click away and am not a fan of hiding options under drop-downs no matter how clean the look may be aesthetically. I guess if I were going to summarize, I haven't seen any big improvements yet that would make me really want to update to version 2.2. I suspect I will eventually simply because I know add-ons will come and there may be functionality that I desire down the road that requires 2.2 I also may be less excited because we are less than a year down the road with 2.1 so not pining for immediate significant change :)
 

eva2000

Habitué
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
1,788
Definitely staying with Xenforo. 2.2 content types for Q&A and Suggestions will be very useful for my Centmin Mod community support forums. I just have to decide/see what I am going to do with my current PWA service worker implementation I have as it has some features which Xenforo 2.2 PWA doesn't have i.e. service worker pre-caching of assets and pages so that off-line mode does more than just give an offline message. So if entire threads/forums are within browser storage cache, they'd still serve a page in offline mode.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,278
I'm not a XF fanboi. I use it and it does what it says on the tin. My members are used to it. While I'm not sure the announced features will make any huge difference on my forum, I'm certainly not going to switch software over them.

Knowing that forum popularity has been waning for the last decade, forum software still insists on following the same general path that has been leading to its lack of popularity.
This is a sweeping generalization we've all seen many times. What evidence can you present that it is the structure of the forum software that is to blame? And if it is, what path should forums be following? How do you explain the fact that facebook and twitter, two of the biggest social media platforms, are both declining in use? They aren't following the forum structure.

I don't think it's a case of accepting "good enough" over "better". A forum is a forum. You can add lots of extra stuff along side it (as IPS has done), but you cannot change the fundamental purpose of the forum. What attracts people to forums hasn't changed. They either are interested in the topic and want to participate or they aren't.

Applying a bit of Occam's Razor here, could the real answer be that most people simply can't be arsed to read or think that much any more? No amount of bells and whistles is going to fix that.
 

yeswecan

Participant
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
90
First I have to say that XF 2.2 should have been 2.0. So I welcome the new features, but this should have been in the 2.0 version, because it is a bigger "change" than from XF1.5x to 2.0

Second, I voted for sticking with XF. Not because it is better or worse than another software. Just because my approach to judge the benefit of a forum software for me is always a long term view and does not change every 3 months depending on new features which will or will not be announced.

Otherweise I would need to switch every 12 months. There will be always a feature that I would like to have with another software, but in general, it is only a question of time until the other software catches up.

So please do not fall into the trap of X has this and Y has that. The only exception for me at the moment are smartphone apps.

This is a feature which could become a game changer for various reasons, I do not want to go into detail here. But I look very closely what XF and what IPB are doing/planning in this area.

I have a xf license that has expired a few months ago and I will not be renewing it. I will sell it

If you or others want to sell XF licences, please contact me.

I think for some that may be part of the problem. Xenforo is just a forum. It's widely accepted that forums by themselves have been a slowly dying breed due to lack of actual innovation or ways of helping entice people to want to join them.

I read this many times. The question for me is: What do you expect? What would you make differently without loosing the benefit of a well structured source of information? Because this is IMHO the key difference between social media and forums. Once you give this advantage away, there is no reason anymore for the existance of forums.

Xenforo may be just 'good enough', but these days, that's no longer becoming good enough for many people. Including those visiting the forums. Xenforos new features didn't exactly overwhelm me with excitement. If anything it seems like a game of catch up at best. And that's concerning. And you make a forum for you, sure. But without members liking what you are doing, your forum is as good as dead on arrival.

I do think you confuse cause and effect here. There is no doubt that forums have nowadays less activity. But within this group, there are huge differences from forum to forum. The reason for this is not the way forums are presented, the reason for this is whether you have a forum which is dealing with longterm knowledge in a specific area or with a forum that deals only about the chit chat of daily life without a clear focus on longtern knowledge. The latter one loose the most.

The decline in the first group has by far more to do with the time it requires for the users to show up there on a daily basis. 20 years ago, without social media and all the other online offers for private hobbies, forums have been the only way to interact with others. That changed. People have the same amount of time available, but need to spread over more platforms. So each platform becomes "less love".


To me, a forum is a forum. If you want a social media replica, then use something like PHPSocial

I agree with the first part. But the second part, i do not understand. Why should I open with this PHPSocial my own social media platform to compete with FB et alii? It just does not make sense. The appeal and selling point of FB, Instagram etc. is, that there are millions of users there. To start a platform like this with let's say 100 users is a dead end. I do not see any growth potential there compared to forums.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that forums as a whole have been on the decline for awhile.This is widely known and accepted. We are seeing fewer and fewer forums that stick around. Many are hobbyist that last for a short while then disappear.

See above. The major selling point for forums vvs. FB et alii is the structured content. It is like a closet. You hve the option either to throw all your clothes into thze closet and shut the door or you have a closet with many drawers in which you can put your clothes
properly ironed.

Some will prefere the chaotic way, others will prefer the cleaned up way. And depending on what kind of clothes it is, one way is more appropriate than the other.

Forums don't need to become social media. But they should be more accepting of some of their more popular qualities. I'm more in favor of bigger upgrades with longer waits in between, than I am a bunch of incremental upgrades, that just keep slapping bandaids on the forum.

There are not many really needed features out there anyway in the future which are missing for a good forum. The needs differ to much from one forum to the other. The more features you put into the core, which 90% of the admins do not need, the slower the software becomes.

At a certain point payed-addons are then the better way to go forward. These could be also official XF addons, like RM and MG. But I do not think it is a good idea to blow a forum software to something big like IPS is doing it for some time now. I would rather prefer an official XF addon "Word press bridge" than a cheap copy of Wordpress in an IPS suite.

Just my 2 cents...
 
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DaveL

Habitué
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,433
I agree with the first part. But the second part, i do not understand. Why should I open with this PHPSocial my own social media platform to compete with FB et alii? It just does not make sense. The appeal and selling point of FB, Instagram etc. is, that there are millions of users there. To start a platform like this with let's say 100 users is a dead end. I do not see any growth potential there compared to forums.
And that was exactly my point! Forums are forums, social media is social media. In my eyes they are totally different, yet people still claim "Facebook is killing forums etc" - No, they are not. There are still thousands upon thousands of very active forums out there.
 

Matthew S

Adherent
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
306
First I have to say that XF 2.2 should have been 2.0. So I welcome the new features, but this should have been in the 2.0 version, because it is a bigger "change" than from XF1.5x to 2.0

XF2.0 was deliberately not much different to 1.5. The intention was to introduce the new framework and have feature parity, with a few small additional tweaks. That is why 2.1 and 2.2 feel like bigger jumps.
 

Drastic

Habitué
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,189
I'm getting ready to revive an old project.

Now my question is this.... do I go with WP for the front end and publishing, because nothing beats WordPress when it comes to article content and the amount of plugins available to help with marketing/etc.

Or do I stick with XF on the homepage because once their new "post types" launch, it could be really darn cool and allows me to have a single solid system in place.

It's annoying to run two systems, but there's so many things WP does that Google/Social media seem to like...

I have AMS and really enjoy it, but there's a few basics it lacks like FBIA integration and even though we requested it, we don't have it, and it stops us from monetizing on social media... which believe it or not, pays pretty darn well.

On the otherhand, there are SO many things XF does in terms of community atmosphere and sending users from WP to XF might only be a single click away, but any clicks btw registration could result in loss of registration.

Then again, it doesn't seem to bother places like IGN that much....
 

DigNap15

Fan
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
562
I tried WP five years ago, and I got was spammers, spammers, spammers
Google do not like my forum, so I'm defund them - no ads and I use ad blockers, and I tell everyone I can that they are evil censorers.
Youtube is even worse - demonetising channels for no good reason!

We are all missing the biggest probem.
Its getting people to find us, and then realise that forums are better than other social media for organised discssuion.
 
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Taylor J

Fan
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
896
Using adblockers isn't hurting Google, it's hurting the people their ad's are supporting.
 

Alpha1

Administrator
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
4,082
I have AMS and really enjoy it, but there's a few basics it lacks like FBIA integration and even though we requested it, we don't have it, and it stops us from monetizing on social media... which believe it or not, pays pretty darn well.
This is Facebook's version of AMP, which has added ads positioning in it. That's quite a tall order. I think only CMS like WordPress and Drupal have this because Facebook has implemented this themselves. I think something as large as this belongs in the core or as a separate addon.

Why would you want to give your content to Facebook to display it within their walled garden? It sound to me that this is the opposite of Social Media Marketing. Once people read the article they can go on about their business within Facebook without the need to get the full article on your website.
If you want to go that way then you might as well just open a facebook group and host your forums there. Am I missing something?
 

sanction9

Adherent
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
264
I'm getting ready to revive an old project.

Now my question is this.... do I go with WP for the front end and publishing, because nothing beats WordPress when it comes to article content and the amount of plugins available to help with marketing/etc.

Or do I stick with XF on the homepage because once their new "post types" launch, it could be really darn cool and allows me to have a single solid system in place.

It's annoying to run two systems, but there's so many things WP does that Google/Social media seem to like...

I have AMS and really enjoy it, but there's a few basics it lacks like FBIA integration and even though we requested it, we don't have it, and it stops us from monetizing on social media... which believe it or not, pays pretty darn well.

On the otherhand, there are SO many things XF does in terms of community atmosphere and sending users from WP to XF might only be a single click away, but any clicks btw registration could result in loss of registration.

Then again, it doesn't seem to bother places like IGN that much....


There is this TH addon for XF you could consider, but it ain't cheap:

 

Drastic

Habitué
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,189
There is this TH addon for XF you could consider, but it ain't cheap:


I checked some of the other sites using it and they all load super slow. I do like it, but is the speed sacrifice worth it? I dunno... I don't want to give my site any reason to lose ranks....
 

Drastic

Habitué
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,189
This is Facebook's version of AMP, which has added ads positioning in it. That's quite a tall order. I think only CMS like WordPress and Drupal have this because Facebook has implemented this themselves. I think something as large as this belongs in the core or as a separate addon.

Why would you want to give your content to Facebook to display it within their walled garden? It sound to me that this is the opposite of Social Media Marketing. Once people read the article they can go on about their business within Facebook without the need to get the full article on your website.
If you want to go that way then you might as well just open a facebook group and host your forums there. Am I missing something?

FBIA is actually really cool.

They load your full article and monetize it. The reader gets a super fast version of your article, links to your FB page to grow more likes, links to more articles from your site, and the ad monetizing is very good. The pay rates are similar to adsense.

I got lucky last year and one article on FBIA got about 600k views. The payout was $x,xxx for it :)

It's well worth using for blog/article posts.
 
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Alpha1

Administrator
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
4,082
If this feature earns so much money then it would be worthwhile for you to have it custom coded as an addon to AMS.
 

Drastic

Habitué
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,189
If this feature earns so much money then it would be worthwhile for you to have it custom coded as an addon to AMS.

Well, if I'm going bigger into publishing, then it makes more sense to use WP as it's just got so many more options for marketing/content and the ad inserters that work with it are worth using. I haven't tested Siropu's advertising addon with AMS yet, but if there's anyone who can make an addon for ads inside AMS articles, it's him for sure.

AMS is awesome, but I see it as a compliment to a community vs publishing as a main objective. Although if I had access to a decent developer, I would probably consider making a few mods and rolling with it. That part is sometimes tricky and expensive down the road, like when new updates are released and you have to keep dumping money into custom development.

With XF's post types coming out, I'm also curious to see where that all goes.
 

Philpug

Participant
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
86
Not every upgrade is a huge leap forward, this being a (point) two verses a full upgrade to say XF3.0, I expecting incremental upgrades. As long as it is not a step back, I see no reason to even consider jumping to another platform
 

whitetigergrowl

Participant
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
60
So stop looking at it from an owner or administrative perspective. I see this too many times online and offline where those running the show are so focused on running the business, they kinda forget to be in the customers shoes because they are so focused on themselves. Then they start asking why things are slowing down, why fewer people are active, why what they have is dying, etc. They've completely lost touch with what people want. By the time they realize it, many times it's too late.

So what does that have to do with forums? Simple. It's widely known and accepted that forums are on the decline and will continue to decline. They aren't as popular as they used to be and many of the ones that do pop up in the hopes of getting somewhere, even with tons of hard work and content put into it, end up not lasting because the cost is outweighing the gain. All one has to do is visit the threads on the official websites asking you to show off your forum to see all of the links now dead, even fairly recently.

The reason forums are on the decline is simple. They aren't giving people what they really want or are looking for. So people have little incentive to visit them. They are no longer serving the purpose most people are looking for. So you end up catering to a small group of people. Are you running the forum for yourself? Or do you even care if anyone joins and is active and participates?

How many here visit forums more often in a week than some form of social media? And be honest.

Forums have no personality. They have no feeling of life or soul to them. No feeling of wanting to be a part of something.

Ignoring all of the warning signs and making excuses to not change is a recipe that will lead to a slow demise. Go to many news websites and they don't use forums for engaging. They use Disqus or something similar. Other larger websites like Sony even completely got rid of forums. Yet again no one asks why.

At the current rate forum software like Xenforo and even IPB will end up primarily in the hands of hobbyists that generally have no longevity and aren't going to be a steady reliable source of income overall. A few corporations may keep them afloat if they use them for behind the scenes stuff, but currently this, "its good enough" attitude is what will kill forums. Dialup internet was just good enough. Rotary phones were just good enough. Cars without A/C and just 8 track tapes were just good enough. Yet we still moved beyond them and evolved to give the people more of what they wanted.

So here's a test. Ask your forum members what they like and dislike about your forum and forums in general. If they visit your site more than social media. And if they visit social media more often, why is that? What they think forum software should be more like. If you still don't listen to them, you are just helping put that nail in the coffin willingly.

It's time to stop making excuses. Time to stop just asking more of the same old same old. It's time to actually re-evaluate forum software and what its purpose and role is and who it's being catered to. "Good enough" is what will ultimately kill it and those wanting more of that are the ones that are a good part responsible for falling into complacency and allowing it to happen. Expect more from forum creators. People did when VB was still active. VB 3 ended up being a pinnacle of forum software because of it.

VB 4 and 5 are a result of what happens when you stop listening and just do your own thing. Now the official forums are even dead when they used to be so active and vb.org is pretty dead now too.

I see so many forums just dying. Forums that used to be rich with activity. Forums that had life that are now lifeless. Owners still trying to add new content, but it's clear forums in general are going the way of the dinosaur and I guess "good enough" is the new way to keep them alive. I dunno.

At what point do we stop being just fanboys of forum software and blindly keep defending them and actually start holding them to a standard? At what point are things no longer acceptable? Because if those visiting the forums no longer find it acceptable and are leaving and not being as active but it's mainly the forum owners that are, there's clearly a disconnect that is being ignored.
 

DigNap15

Fan
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
562
whitetigergrowl
We see a lot of posts like this.
I am sure we all bascially agree.
Facebook, Youtube, Blogs, Reddit, Quara, Discuss are forums opposition.
(plus the technical complexity of running a forum)
But you give no answers,
Be the same as them?
 

Drastic

Habitué
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,189
Yes. That's exactly what you do. You adapt to new things or your thing withers away.
 
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