Why is there so much vB hate?

Panupat

Habitué
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
1,623
Would you give it another shot if they came up with vB6?
Probably no. I didn't have any good enough impression with vB5 as a user to want to use their 6 and all the story surrounding vB5 had lost me my faith in their software as an admin.

It's not like the first time I got a taste of vB3 back in High school. I was drooling all over it and wanted to host my own so fricking much but I couldn't afford it. Still it was a huge turning point in my life: it led me to learn Pearl and later PHP to code my own forum and that skill set really forge what I do today.
 

LeadCrow

Apocalypse Admin
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
6,562
Would you give it another shot if they came up with vB6?
There would have to be more than just a properly coded, performing vb6 code dump for that. That's how deep IB's management sank vBulletin by imposing changes that only accomodated IB's own finances in unrelated markets.

- First, a licencing/support change back to jelsoft-era yearly renewals. 'Upfront' charges are clearly not sustainable and everyone is moving (back?) to subscription models.
- However, the customer trust that makes renewal systems work had been broken, and it will take at least firm commitments or guarantees that orders from above will not result again in self-inflicted destruction of that goodwill, and even then it will take time as positive momentum will likely be believed to be temporary.
- A proper project lead with a background in managing software companies and economists should also be brought onboard to restore the company.
Also, constant communication: blogs, have you seens, tech talks - show us you actually understand well what you're selling against our needs and wants and be capable of convincing us you're not full of sheep.
 

HallofFamer

Habitué
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
1,332
Yeah I dont understand this either. VB5 is considered the world's leading forum software, as you can see from that home page. Hating on the industry leader aint going to get you anywhere, better just ride the hype train.
:)
 

overcast

Adherent
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
474
I think if the VB team gets better developers with regular updates. I am sure it will be all good. Currently people are so deep in hate they think SMF and Mybb are better than VB lol.
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,231
I think if the VB team gets better developers with regular updates. I am sure it will be all good. Currently people are so deep in hate they think SMF and Mybb are better than VB lol.
vBulletin actually updates very regularly, probably more so than any other platform. I can't comment on the competency of the development team but having 3011 confirmed issues can't help their cause.
 

Papa Tango

Aspirant
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
16
I started out with SMF, and really enjoyed the platform and its community. Then came the licensing type pissing wars, and the sudden rush to monetize extensions. Remember the debacle over bridges to link Joomla or WordPress? The solution was to pony-up and license vB. That was in its v3/4 iteration. Great community, great product.

v5 was a horrid tragedy--a failed attempt to create a forum 'community' and offer an alternative CMS front end. Most users did not get it and did not like it. Too much code kludge also. Then came Xenforo.

I am disappointed at what happened with vB, but would never turn back to their product whatever they did. When a product ignores its customer base, its time to find a new product.

With the way that small boards see interaction these days, I am finding any of the forms to be a bit of overkill. In many cases, a WP front end with WPforo accomplishes almost everything we used to clamor for in vB3.
 

CyberJoe

Enthusiast
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
105
Easy answer, because so many people invested so much time into their forums, running VB, only to be dropped by the software vendor.

I will be moving out of principle the moment I get the chance.
 

highlander29

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
184
And in the process, most of us ended up having little real choice but to convert to other software, incurring significant development costs and time expenditures along the way.

Its a little hard not to be personally pissed off under those circumstances.
And vBulletin.org, once an amazing oasis of support and help run by energetically amazing free-lancers was eventually ruined. I had no horse in that race, but watching numerous incredible and unselfish support folks run off that site for no apparent logical reason really drove me to look for another product.
These are the two driving reasons for me. IB isn't a good software development company. VB 5 isn't an especially good product, earlier versions of the software are no longer supported, and there isn't a thriving community developing add-ons. As a result, they have low market share. People are irritated because they spent so much time and money on a great platform that was the clear market leader by a wide margin and were essentially forced to switch to something more viable. I'm in the process of making that conversion now. People felt abandoned.
 

Joeychgo

TAZ Administrator
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
6,928
These are the two driving reasons for me. IB isn't a good software development company. VB 5 isn't an especially good product, earlier versions of the software are no longer supported, and there isn't a thriving community developing add-ons. As a result, they have low market share. People are irritated because they spent so much time and money on a great platform that was the clear market leader by a wide margin and were essentially forced to switch to something more viable. I'm in the process of making that conversion now. People felt abandoned.

Basically, this is the answer to the OPs question.

And its important to note, none of this was the fault of people like Paul, who worked hard to improve and make vB4 viable. It was 100% due to management and their refusal to listen to their customers. We told them over and over that the things they were doing were mistakes, and were ignored. This forced many of us to expend considerable time and money to convert our sites to another platform.

That said, I don't think I would characterize it as hate for most of us, but a loss of respect for the company. But at the same time, the company wasn't the same company once Keir and crew left.
 

overcast

Adherent
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
474
vBulletin actually updates very regularly, probably more so than any other platform. I can't comment on the competency of the development team but having 3011 confirmed issues can't help their cause.
I hope things change though. I remember in past SMF was in danger because of one staff member, if that kind of situation can reverse, I am sure VB too will have it's day.
 

HallofFamer

Habitué
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
1,332
Actually most of the so-called 'VB Haters' dont really hate VB, they hate IB, note this difference. And a big part of this was that VB vs Xenforo lawsuit, IB decided to spend money on the court fighting for nonsense rather than investing in VB's development/improvement. Now you get an idea what a company it is, some people seriously thinks that they bought VB from Jelsoft for the sake of running it to the ground, 'cause oh well, their competitors are running VB. A company whose customers are their competitors, is a perfectly example of anti-customer company.
 

Alfa1

Administrator
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
3,971
I also think a loss of respect & trust is a much better definition currently. Sure, IB has done immense damage to my sites at the time and they unscrupolously tricked us into suffering more and more damage, only to follow up by low ball offers in attempts to buy up my sites on the cheap. Actually buying up multiple of our competitors and outfitting those sites with an exclusive version of vbulletin that is not for sale and had many of the promised features we had been waiting on for years but never arrived. Sure that caused deep aggravation at the time. But that was long ago. The result of their actions is that vbull is no longer really relevant. IB is no longer relevant to me. No point in hating. But I cant take them serious either.
 

Alfa1

Administrator
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
3,971
Sure. Those are just some of a long list of tricks they played on customers. Here are some more. It was a long time ago, so some small details may be off, but here goes:

A famous one is the way they released vb4 in 2009. They made a fake video about what it would do. Raised the price a lot and released it for sale on christmass eve with a time limited sale. With the hype and the sale a lot of people bought it. The software was a pile of bugs and unusable. Quite a few people upgraded their sites and landed in a hot mess of trouble if it worked at all. Thousands of bugs were reported. IB was on holidays for a few weeks. When they returned IB wasn't particular ly sensitive to the dire situation of their customers. The CEO stated that it didn't matter how many queries pages had. :S

When new releases didnt bring anything of value for years and the criticism became too much, the vbull staff went silent for many months. Ignoring their customers. Then out of the blue came a new manager who promised golden rainbows and posted a long list of awesome features that were coming up for vb4. Months later they retracted the announcement stating the manager had no authority and there was no official seal on the announcement so it was not valid.

Anyways, there are plenty of examples there of how to drive customers into despair. I believe IB management have a lot of expertise in that area.
 

Joeychgo

TAZ Administrator
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
6,928
Anyways, there are plenty of examples there of how to drive customers into despair. I believe IB management have a lot of expertise in that area.
One interesting story I have is when I ran into a few of the IB upper management at a Forumcon. We all shook hands and what not, and I suggested we all sit down for lunch that day and discuss where things were with vB. They agreed wholeheartedly, telling me they thought it would be a great thing to do.

Then, they spoke at forumcon shortly after we had made this arrangement, and then promptly ran away, never saying another word to me.

Its almost comical now.
 
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