Why is it so insanely difficult to find good developers on xenforo.com ?

Snog

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Sep 9, 2012
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Hmm, I dunno why it is so hard. I guess you have people wanting crazy mods and devs who want $30+ an hour.
I'm not sure what you expect to pay for a good coder, but the average going rate is around $40 an hour. Those with more experience are upwards of $100 an hour.

Most developers will give a cut rate if the add-on to be developed has marketability and can be released publicly as a premium add-on.

If it's strictly private, expect to pay a premium one time price. To date, the most expensive add-on I've done cost the owner over $900 because he wasn't willing to allow me to release it publicly.

I don't even bother quoting most requests because I know that people won't pay the price I ask from experience.
 

Snog

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Then of course most of the time the people that approach a coder don't have a clear cut idea of what they want. They describe vague requirements and expect the coder to fill in the rest.

Well, sorry... If the client doesn't know exactly what they want, I'm no mind reader and I sure as heck don't know what that client wants. ;)
 

pierce

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I'm not sure what you expect to pay for a good coder, but the average going rate is around $40 an hour. Those with more experience are upwards of $100 an hour.

Most developers will give a cut rate if the add-on to be developed has marketability and can be released publicly as a premium add-on.

If it's strictly private, expect to pay a premium one time price. To date, the most expensive add-on I've done cost the owner over $900 because he wasn't willing to allow me to release it publicly.

I don't even bother quoting most requests because I know that people won't pay the price I ask from experience.
I don't know the pricing, and was being conservative. At that rate it is $1200 week with a 40 hour fill rate. There is no such thing as a perfect fill rate because of quotation, learning, etc.

For the prices you quoted for private coding what happens if a bug is found. Is that covered under cost or charged extra?

What if a xenforo minor update breaks it?

I don't know how many xenforo forums can afford custom coding at $40/hour and how many of those that could afford $100/hour.

Do not take what I'm saying as devaluing coding, i know it is a highly skilled unique ability and to get somebody good is lucky/rare.
 

Snog

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I don't know the pricing, and was being conservative. At that rate it is $1200 week with a 40 hour fill rate. There is no such thing as a perfect fill rate because of quotation, learning, etc.

For the prices you quoted for private coding what happens if a bug is found. Is that covered under cost or charged extra?

What if a xenforo minor update breaks it?

I don't know how many xenforo forums can afford custom coding at $40/hour and how many of those that could afford $100/hour.

Do not take what I'm saying as devaluing coding, i know it is a highly skilled unique ability and to get somebody good is lucky/rare.
You're correct, there isn't a perfect fill rate. And that's taken into account when quoting. But, the base rate for good quality coders is around $40/hr. I can, and have literally walked across the street and made double that coding for a company.

The actual rate a client pays usually works out to around $20/hr taking into account any extraneous activity that may need to take place.

So far as bugs go, fixes are included in the price.

A minor update to XF shouldn't ever break anything. But it is possible and would also be included in the price. However, a major version change like 1.4 to 1.5 would not be covered. And a jump from 1.x to 2.x would not be covered.
 

DaUnknownAdmin

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In addition to that since the announcement of XF 2.0, all the devs backed up a bit in my opinion. Well it is almost 2 years now since XF declared that there will be a 2.0 soon. I think this delay of 2 years also hurt the community so much. Cause obviously nobody wants to invest time in big projects, when you know that a total rewrite will be needed, so a lot of money will be lost. So everybody kept waiting, and waiting, and now 2 years after we still wait for the 2.0. Probably a gold release will be in summer 17 or at the end of the year. So 3 years since the announcement roughly.

That also made the pool smaller, cause the customers wanted to wait. And while waiting, many devs left the scene cause there is not much going on.
I can say from my personal experience that there is a certain addon that I have been waiting for to go Gold. And now that it has, I'm holding off because I don't know when xf 2.0 is coming out and if the addon will be updated. I hate using addons that I and my members grow to love and then not have it available (for whatever reason). GARS was once such addon,

So now I'm just waiting to see what 2.0 brings.
 

Snog

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I will also add that I have experimented and quoted what worked out to $10/hr for add-ons, and Brogan recently mentioned he quoted an add-on at what works out to be $13/hr US. Both of us were told that's too much money.

I don't know what people expect an add-on to cost. But, I am well beyond making $10/hr or less and have no intention of going in that direction.
 

Dryline

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Apr 30, 2016
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Sometimes it isn't about how much you pay them or how detailed your requirements are. Treating xF devs with dignity and the way any of us would want to be treated is paramount to all else - especially in public. When development efforts go sideways and the crap hits the fan, it doesn't usually work out so well and there is no going back once the arse chewing and name calling stops. It can be a challenge but it's well worth it to always prevent burning a bridge, if at all possible.
 

sbjsbj

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DaUnknownAdmin
So you prove what I say, which is the normal case. Everybody is in the same boat as you and act like you.
And what addon are you talking about, just curious.

Snog
I always thought you guys (you, Brogan) are quoting much more than 10. Interesting. Good to know for the future :D.
 

Digital Phoenix

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Add-on devs are under charging as it is, simply because there are three types of people that buy addons.

The ignorant; The have no idea how much effort it takes to code and believe addons shouldn't cost more than a few bucks.

The greedy; Those that want everything handed to them on a silver plater for free or as cheap as possible.

The willing; those that know how much effort it takes to code and are willing to pay top dollar for it.

Unfortunately the last group is the minority and devs are having to reduce their prices because of it.
 

Danielx64

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The greedy; Those that want everything handed to them on a silver plater for free or as cheap as possible.
I would have said gold platter :)

The willing; those that know how much effort it takes to code and are willing to pay top dollar for it.

Unfortunately the last group is the minority and devs are having to reduce their prices because of it.
While that's true, there also people out there who want some decents stuff but they can't afford it because their income is so low. Also there are things that is not worth the price that it written on.
 

ChrisTERiS

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Jan 16, 2015
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Just my opinion/decision, I don't plan to work again for addons of any software. Now I'm coding just in PHP knowing that my code, with simple changes will works for years. What to say for:

1.- vBulletin: All my 20+ addons for vB3 needed to totally recoding to work with vB4. And after spending months to recode them, vB5 moved the water and I had to recode them from scratch.

2.- IPS: Same problem between versions 3 and 4

3.- WHMCS: Same problems between versions 3, 4, 5, 6

4.- And as I know the same problem will appears in xenForo when version 2 will be released. Have read that ver2 code is not compatible with ver.1 code.

That's the main reason that most developers stay away for addons. Is not a problem of xenForo. Is a global problem for all addons.

EDITED: To give an example. I've a client who paid me more than 50.000 Euros for a series of custom addons for vB4. Now he is thinking to move to vB5 and asked me how much it will cost to make these addons compatible with vB5. What to say him? That I need another 50.000 Euros as not a single line of vB4 will works on vB5?
 
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Snog

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I always thought you guys (you, Brogan) are quoting much more than 10. Interesting. Good to know for the future :D.
I am, and I think Brogan is too. $10/hr was just an experiment. See my earlier posts.
 

Danielx64

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EDITED: To give an example. I've a client who paid me more than 50.000 Euros for a series of custom addons for vB4. Now he is thinking to move to vB5 and asked me how much it will cost to make these addons compatible with vB5. What to say him? That I need another 50.000 Euros as not a single line of vB4 will works on vB5?
Oh my...... May I ask what mods they were?
 

ChrisTERiS

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Jan 16, 2015
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Oh my...... May I ask what mods they were?
Classifieds (any type including Auctions), Gallery, Marketplace, a complex FAQ system and finally a mod for Articles working like CMS (using threads for comments).
Just keep in mind that i was working 2 years for those projects (2010-2012).
 

Danielx64

Developer
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Nov 8, 2009
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vaultwiki tries to make itself work alongside xenforo vs. addon to it
makes it easier to make version for IPB, vB and XF.
there must be drawbacks to that approach as well.
ArrowChat is an example - the system will link into many different systems but it also mean that you have 2 control panel that you need to keep an eye on. So yes there would be a downside.
 
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