When did theft become okay and even acceptable?

Anton Chigurh

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it's just not a physical object.
Nobody's argued that it is. Red herring. It's still THEFT to copy someone's paid custom style, change a few cosmetic things on it, then hold it out as your own original work. Especially when you're a competing site in the exact same genre.

Just call it what it is.
 

Casmic

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Nobody's argued that it is. Red herring. It's still THEFT to copy someone's paid custom style, change a few cosmetic things on it, then hold it out as your own original work. Especially when you're a competing site in the exact same genre.

Just call it what it is.
You asked me to explain what I meant by possessions that are intangible.

Yes it is illegal to use the theme in most countries, though not all countries. You're correct that it is theft for someone in the United States of America to use the theme under copyright law. Doesn't really matter who's competing with who. Though since we're talking about laws here, they vary by country and definitions may also vary.
 

Anton Chigurh

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You asked me to explain what I meant by possessions that are intangible.
I did not. I asked for an example list.
Yes it is illegal to use the theme in most countries, though not all countries. You're correct that it is theft for someone in the United States of America to use the theme under copyright law. Doesn't really matter who's competing with who. Though since we're talking about laws here, they vary by country and definitions may also vary.
We're not (necessarily) talking about LAW. That's yet another red herring. Nobody's said what the puke did was illegal. Have you even bothered to read the thread?

It's about honor and integrity. Two things that used to be important, among webmasters. Two things the internet community USED to hold people's feet to the fire on.
 

Casmic

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I did not. I asked for an example list.

We're not (necessarily) talking about LAW. That's yet another red herring. Nobody's said what the puke did was illegal. Have you even bothered to read the thread?

It's about honor and integrity. Two things that used to be important, among webmasters. Two things the internet community USED to hold people's feet to the fire on.
In what terms are you looking to define theft in? Could be moral terms where we look to a code of what's right and wrong, legal where we look to the law, or perhaps religious if we look to a particular belief system. A quick look at the dictionary shows that they mean in legal terms:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theft

specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

We're getting in the weeds of grammar and semantics here though, so I'm not sure there's value in us talking about what the word means -- I've already said that it's at least a violation of civil law, and a bad thing to do. That we can probably agree on.
 

Anton Chigurh

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We're getting in the weeds of grammar and semantics here
Yes, it started with your first post in the thread, which echoed some of the same half-assed points that were shot down before.
Could be moral terms where we look to a code of what's right and wrong, legal where we look to the law, or perhaps religious if we look to a particular belief system
People know what online theft is, when it is plain and simple black in white like in the example here. Trying to couch it in beliefs and views from different cultures and countries is yet another water-muddying red herring.

When you rip a paid custom style of a competitor, and make only a few minor cosmetic changes to it, then represent it as your own creation, is recognized universally on the web, as theft. It's not a legal description, it's not based on country, culture, religion, philosophy or anything else. It simply is what it is. It's not a grey area.

The thief was allowed to use the ripped style after the fact of the theft, only if he credited the site he stole the style from. If it's not theft, then he wouldn't have agreed to credit the author, he wouldn't owe them jack. No?
 

Casmic

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Yes, it started with your first post in the thread, which echoed some of the same half-assed points that were shot down before.

People know what online theft is, when it is plain and simple black in white like in the example here. Trying to couch it in beliefs and views from different cultures and countries is yet another water-muddying red herring.

When you rip a paid custom style of a competitor, and make only a few minor cosmetic changes to it, then represent it as your own creation, is recognized universally on the web, as theft. It's not a legal description, it's not based on country, culture, religion, philosophy or anything else. It simply is what it is. It's not a grey area.

The thief was allowed to use the ripped style after the fact of the theft, only if he credited the site he stole the style from. If it's not theft, then he wouldn't have agreed to credit the author, he wouldn't owe them jack. No?
I agree that it's violating a webmaster code of honor.
 

Anton Chigurh

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I agree that it's violating a webmaster code of honor.
The point you made earlier applies: There's 100s probably 1000s of free themes and styles the guy could have used, modified one or more of them to his satisfaction, and there's no issues with that.

But after the theft of the $600-plus paid style, to try to claim it's your own work - then when busted then try to say you had prior permission which clearly you did not, goes beyond the pale. When all that was really needed or wanted was to admit what he did and at the very least apologize. Whole reason for this thread was to get and keep this incident on the record, so the denials cannot continue. And the staff here has kept the thread posted so everything is on the record. So we can point back to it when the denials and the lies continue. It's a word of caution for style developers and their customers - there's thieves out there.

I didn't call the puke out by name and have never referred to him. Others though have and the staff here have let those posts stand. This isn't personal, this is simply a chronicle. This is a person not to be trusted, who has no integrity and no code. No shame and no principles. All should know about him and others of his ilk.
 

Casmic

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The point you made earlier applies: There's 100s probably 1000s of free themes and styles the guy could have used, modified one or more of them to his satisfaction, and there's no issues with that.

But after the theft of the $600-plus paid style, to try to claim it's your own work - then when busted then try to say you had prior permission which clearly you did not, goes beyond the pale. When all that was really needed or wanted was to admit what he did and at the very least apologize. Whole reason for this thread was to get and keep this incident on the record, so the denials cannot continue. And the staff here has kept the thread posted so everything is on the record. So we can point back to it when the denials and the lies continue. It's a word of caution for style developers and their customers - there's thieves out there.

I didn't call the puke out by name and have never referred to him. Others though have and the staff here have let those posts stand. This isn't personal, this is simply a chronicle. This is a person not to be trusted, who has no integrity and no code. No shame and no principles. All should know about him and others of his ilk.
From my experience, people like that aren't reasonable to deal with. They're not going to apologize and probably won't play to any requested terms. There isn't much use getting upset about it, since those people will always be out there and there's nothing much we can do about it. I'd just send a DMCA notice to their host to try and get their site taken down. If that doesn't work there's nothing that can really be done about it, as it just gives them and their site added attention. Odds are the site won't be successful anyway, especially when run by someone with that attitude.
 

Anton Chigurh

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From my experience, people like that aren't reasonable to deal with. They're not going to apologize and probably won't play to any requested terms. There isn't much use getting upset about it, since those people will always be out there and there's nothing much we can do about it. I'd just send a DMCA notice to their host to try and get their site taken down. If that doesn't work there's nothing that can really be done about it
The victim took pity on the puke, allowing no further action than credit for the style and a link back to their own site. Case closed, as far as it goes. This is just, documentation. Nobody's upset. Except for the puke, of course. Because he can't get the record changed or removed, now.
 
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