WBB renewal Schema

we_are_borg

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Actually the WBB "upgrade/support" fee process is one that I'm not crazy about and one of the reasons that I was contemplating converting the site that ran it over to IPS or XenForo. Of course with me bringing my sites down that is not a factor in what I do now - but it would/will be if I decide to bring them back up in the future. WBB will not be what it runs under.
The renewal schema of WBB is one that is more exspensive then XF or IPS because you can skip without paying more. XF and IPS need to do more to keep customers no new improvements is no renewal fee until they do. WBB can go watch moss grow and when they release a new version it does not matter because you always pay for that version if you skip him. Thats one of the reasons i never bought WBB because the renewal schema was expensive.
Luckelly i checked before buying anything from WBB.
 

insaneadmin

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This topic has been mighty insightful. The WBB way of working was something that confused me.
 

we_are_borg

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This topic has been mighty insightful. The WBB way of working was something that confused me.
Most people are confused about the renewal rules. Its one of the hardest to understand. XF and IPS are simple to understand only IPS is 6 months while XF is 12 months. So IPS forum only costs 50 dollars a year and XF forum only 40 dollars a year, so IPS is 10 dollars a year more expensive. But when your license is still active with IPS you have Spam Monitoring Service so the 10 dollar extra is in my eye well worth it. WBB it makes no sense one way or another if you skip you still pay, i think WBB is the only one that uses this schema, its smart because you always cash in.
 

LeadCrow

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The renewal schema of WBB is one that is more exspensive then XF or IPS because you can skip without paying more.
Not really. You get your best bang for buck at the beginning of release cycle (4.0, 4.1, 5.0...), and those cycles are supported with fixes and security updates for at least 2 years. People always buy based on and install what's available right now, not promised future releases.

Use of IPB is gimped unless you keep renewing to remain 'Active' (IINM, access to even free addons in the marketplace is suspended until you swing that mastercard). With XF, continued tech support requires a yearly renewal fee (that includes access to software updates). Tech support and minor patches on WBB are free for as long as your software is not EOL (buying early gives several years' worth at no extra charge. Really handy for hobbyist sites).

A bigger issue people could have with this is that buying WBB close to the end of release cycles (even a day earlier) doesnt, unless you ask for a refund and rebuy. The discounted rate for upgrading is not interesting enough for people who buy this close to the latest release window, compared to users of 2-year old versions.
 

ChrisTERiS

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Not really. You get your best bang for buck at the beginning of release cycle (4.0, 4.1, 5.0...), and those cycles are supported with fixes and security updates for at least 2 years.
vBulletin 4.x released on November 2009, so 7 1/2 full years now, have released a dozen of major updates, and still is supporting. Do I agree with it? NO. Even if from the client view, this was a big earn of money for me (last time that I paid them was on Nov 2009), I do realize that need to pay on internal periods to give the company/author a reason to continue supporting it (with new features).

The problem is not so much that with WBB you need to pay for each version but:
  1. Is easier to pay every 6 months $10, than every 12 months $20, than every 2 years $40. You'll say "Come on.... it's the same amount". Yes, you're right. But trust me, is much more difficult to pay $40 for those who don't have so much money to spend.
  2. There are many people who buy a forum (software) to try the waters. Soon they give up as they're disapponted for many reason (eg no registrations, no income from Ads etc). A couple of years later they think "let's give a new try". For such cases, and believe me that they're much more than you think, to pay backwards for 2 years is a problem.
  3. And don't you think that it must be a roof? eg in my case now I'm almost around 80% of the new license. What will happen on the next version? Do I need to pay 100%?
And something else. I read this: https://wbbstyles.net/thread/112-burning-board-4-0-–-end-of-life/

Not only says no more support/updates but even the forums should be shut down. Is it fair? What if some clients for their own reasons want to stay with their current version? Isn't it a pressing to upgrade?
 

we_are_borg

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Security and fixes are great but most people also want new features and improvements so people have to renew at some point. With WBB you skip 3 versions you still have to pay for them.
 

we_are_borg

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Is it fair to shutdown the WBB 4.0 section, yes and no. If no people will not have an insentive to upgrade to a newer version. If yes then WBB is great for people on version 4 but they cut into their own hand. Lucky we have TAZ so people on WBB 4 can ask questions here if people help one and other its great.
 

ChrisTERiS

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Lucky we have TAZ so people on WBB 4 can ask questions here if people help one and other its great.
I was in rush and didn't wrote the most important. Even if Support/Updates is an important services, what makes me speechless was this:
Downloads in the customer area will be removed.
What's the reason to do it? If I paid for an older version why not be able to download it?
 

LeadCrow

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Probably encouragement for modders to upgrade their addons to support newer WBB versions. It's a common type of measure with software with stable APIs that can't be shelved over time but have to be over software updates. IPS nuked all past addons from its marketplace, and it's worse because competing marketplaces hosting IPB addons and themes are gone.

But honestly, addons too ancient should at least be checked for compatibility and fixed to keep working across WBB updates. If they are not, purging them from the store should do noone a disservice, and likely increase the visibility of more recent alternatives that serve the same functions.
 

dtdesign

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What's the reason to do it? If I paid for an older version why not be able to download it?
Legal reasons, in Germany we have very special laws regarding product warranty. Keeping the downloads available past the announced date can be considered an implicit deferral.

Funny thing is, the same laws are what cause the 2-year guaranteed updates & support for our products, because this is the minimum warranty period for products by law (actually it is 1yr + 1yr, but this is another story). This is also the case things like "1 year update access" doesn't work for us, because we're legally forced to provide these 2 years of support. Got access to a new major on the last day of your subscription? Great, you now have 2 years free updates!

Other than that, we're discontinuing 4.0 only, 4.1 (which has a smooth upgrade path) is still actively supported and will be supported for a much longer duration, because it is the last major of the 4th generation. In comparison, 3.1 was supported for over 6 years before reaching end-of-life.
 

ChrisTERiS

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Legal reasons, in Germany we have very special laws regarding product warranty. Keeping the downloads available past the announced date can be considered an implicit deferral.
As I said in another post I'm not a lawyer and for sure I never meant that you're talking on your own. Strange law rules, sure. Something out of topic. If for example for the same topic EU law is different which counts? Country's or EU law?
 

we_are_borg

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As I said in another post I'm not a lawyer and for sure I never meant that you're talking on your own. Strange law rules, sure. Something out of topic. If for example for the same topic EU law is different which counts? Country's or EU law?
We have 3 sets of laws if you boil it down. We have country law as any other country, then we have EU law that tells what law needs to be made it may be strickter then what is said but not less. The third is a law that is EU but is from the EU put down it cant be changed by the country. EU law is higher in rank then country. Companies that do not follow the law can get heavy fines. This is basic the real stuff is harder to understand.
 

GTB

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Most people are confused about the renewal rules
It is confusing. I bought WBB Gallery, or maybe it was FileBase at time before when the Beta version of it was out - me thinking I'd have access to download the final version once released to use with the forum software (same next version of forum already gold release). Only to find out later I could only download the version before it of Gallery/FileBase released as gold already. So when the Beta of next version went gold and found out I didn't have access to download it and needed to upgrade my license to use it (which I thought I was buying into in the first place to get it). I wasn't too happy about that because I'd no idea while in Beta if you buy a license it doesn't qualify you to download and use that next version when it goes gold - you can only use the previous version that's already gold release.

A bit stupid that if you ask me and can very easy confuse people that one, I ended up having to upgrade my license only a month later after buying it new. It caught me out that because I was looking at the next Beta version and thinking I'll buy a license now ready to use it when gold release - only to then find out you can't do that with WBB . So don't buy a license while something is in Beta/RC stages. Wait till it gets released as gold before buying a license
 
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dtdesign

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If for example for the same topic EU law is different which counts? Country's or EU law?
There are no EU laws, only EU directives, and this pretty much sums it up.

A directive is basically forcing a member country to enact a law that enforces the contents of the directive. Local laws must not violate directives, but other than that, countries can pretty much do whatever they want. This is included but it is not limited to laws that resemble a more restrictive variant of the directive.

Let's assume that a new EU directive pops up and define that all "foo objects" should only be sold together with "bar objects". The member states then have to enact local laws that enforce this, but countries can also add that only "foo objects", "bar objects" and "baz objects" may be sold together and not separated. That law would perfectly fit the EU directive, but it is actually a more restrictive variant.

This is, of course, only a simplified explanation, Wikipedia or any other source can provide you a far more in-depth explanation, including the numerous exceptions.
 

ChrisTERiS

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We have 3 sets of laws if you boil it down. We have country law as any other country, then we have EU law that tells what law needs to be made it may be strickter then what is said but not less. The third is a law that is EU but is from the EU put down it cant be changed by the country. EU law is higher in rank then country. Companies that do not follow the law can get heavy fines. This is basic the real stuff is harder to understand.
I lost my mind only by reading it :) ...... In Greece we're pioneers. Everything depends on who are you. If I'm politician or belong to high society I'm not guilty. If I'm just a simple citizen, I'm always guilty. That's why I use to say "Democracy born in Greece but soon relocated abroad to grow-up" :).
 

Horizon

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I just seen a review for WBB and I wanted to inform fellow buyers for this issue with the renewal. A review must covers all aspects.
I don't know if you're talking about me there, but I did say this in my review:

The last negative and one I have just become aware of, I purchased WC3 - Wolt Core 3 software and I had assumed that all WC3x series of software updates would come as part of the initial outlay cost, but I understand that a major update to the forum, which I need, may come in Autumn and Woltlab intend to charge for that! I've just paid for the software, I shouldn't have to pay for any updates for at least a year. Buyer beware on this!
 

ChrisTERiS

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I don't know if you're talking about me there, but I did say this in my review:
First of all, by making that post didn't meant anything bad for you, or for software eighter. I just gave more details (that's why I attached a screenshot from my account), so everybody can calculate the real cost, and make readers pay attention that this company is using a different renewal schema than the common one that most PHP scripts are using.
 

Horizon

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I think it's just a case of buyer beware. Clearly, I wasn't aware and being thick doesn't help matters either.

But there is a feature in the next major update for the forum that I really need, but it looks like I will need to pay all over again to access this feature, which is the hidden forum feature BTW. And this next upgrade may come in the Autumn only a few months after I paid for the software...
 

ChrisTERiS

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And this next upgrade may come in the Autumn only a few months after I paid for the software...
Maybe is better to ask the company. I'm not totally sure but I think that there is a special rule in their terms for those who bought the script last xx time period. My memory doesn't helps me as it's already 6 years that I bought it, but I think that I was able to download a major update not a long time after my order.
 
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