The watching 'vBulletin's market share nosedive' thread.

When will vB drop below 50% market share?


  • Total voters
    164

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
555
I have been, at times, a very vocal critic of IPS while also being a customer for over 10 years. That said, I have been playing in their 4.2 sandbox for a couple days now and it is absolutely fantastic! It's fast, the interface is clean, the new features they've added are relevant and modern. (Social media promotions.... swoon :excited:) I expect once 4.2 is released that their market share growth will accelerate. I am so excited to upgrade to it.
 

Paul M

Limeade Addict
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,854
I have a specific example of it not working if you have interest in opening a ticket to help make it better for existing users.
How odd, If I search for "query" by Joe R, I get just one post - the one you are looking for.
If I search using "folks mentioned high query count" I get 12 results, including Joes Post.

I repeated this as a guest, and got nothing, so it seems more like something permission based is at work.

I'll mention it, but since I'm leaving in 5 weeks, the site isnt really my worry anymore.
 

Paul M

Limeade Addict
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Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,854
I always remember trying to find a quote from the ex eXtreme Communications Manager (I forget his title), Lawrence Cole, where he said Vbulletin 4 was for starter/small sites.
Never could find it, unless it was deleted, of course.
I'm pretty sure that was vBulletin 5, not vBulletin 4.
 

GTB

Tazmanian
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
4,038
No one has to forgive them - honestly, I don't think they could ever redeem themselves to me either.
When iB took over vBulletin and it came to light they wasn't software developers, they just made money from sites run on vBulletin. The writing was on the wall then, more so when they started getting rid of the old vBulletin developers (or some started leaving). I for one moved on shorty after that point (when seeing they was making a hash of vB4) and don't understand why people still to this date have this grudge against vB.

I prefer to remember vBulletin as being great forum software used once. vBulletin 3 was superb for using but things changed. That's life!
 
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BirdOPrey5

#Awesome
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
4,217
How odd, If I search for "query" by Joe R, I get just one post - the one you are looking for.
If I search using "folks mentioned high query count" I get 12 results, including Joes Post.

I repeated this as a guest, and got nothing, so it seems more like something permission based is at work.

I'll mention it, but since I'm leaving in 5 weeks, the site isnt really my worry anymore.
Logged in as a moderator with my staff account I also get zero results searching for "folks mentioned high query count"
 

Digital Doctor

Tazmanian
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
4,703
The downside of rewriting from scratch for every major version. I do respect the effort though.
So far this whole rewrite doesn't seem worth it.
Hopefully it brings benefits for the future.
I wonder if the coding of addons is easier ... will it bring in better addon coders ?
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
6,974
Now you know how IB felt.
If that's a reference to vBulletin 5 I'd say it's an invalid comparison. xenForo 2.0 is likely to be a stable release containing feature parity with it's predecessor. A solid foundation on which to add further functionality. vB 5.0 was anything but that.
 

BirdOPrey5

#Awesome
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
4,217
If that's a reference to vBulletin 5 I'd say it's an invalid comparison. xenForo 2.0 is likely to be a stable release containing feature parity with it's predecessor. A solid foundation on which to add further functionality. vB 5.0 was anything but that.
It's a reference to the infamous conversation of Kier trying to sell IB on a complete rewrite of the software. It sounds good but after 2+ years still waiting, people start wondering how far advanced would we be if this effort went into the existing software, which (at the time) was perfectly capable already.

Where would XenForo be now had they kept working on 1.x as the main focus? Who knows but people start to wonder.
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
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Aug 26, 2010
Messages
6,974
It's a reference to the infamous conversation of Kier trying to sell IB on a complete rewrite of the software. It sounds good but after 2+ years still waiting, people start wondering how far advanced would we be if this effort went into the existing software, which (at the time) was perfectly capable already.

Where would XenForo be now had they kept working on 1.x as the main focus? Who knows but people start to wonder.
Fair points but in the long run attention to detail and stability seem to win the day. The downside is virtually all the major products are years behind in terms of the functionality users expect from an on-line, community driven platform.
 

BirdOPrey5

#Awesome
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
4,217
Fair points but in the long run attention to detail and stability seem to win the day. The downside is virtually all the major products are years behind in terms of the functionality users expect from an on-line, community driven platform.
I don't expect all that much, I think the necessary tools have long been available. We're just adding fluff at this point.
 

Digitalpoint

Brain
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
303
So far this whole rewrite doesn't seem worth it.
Hopefully it brings benefits for the future.
I wonder if the coding of addons is easier ... will it bring in better addon coders ?
Making addons isn't easier, but the internal XF2 framework addons use is *much* better (which is saying a lot because the XF1 framework was already best in class).

There are also a decent number of new features beyond just feature parity. Not everyone has a use for each feature but I can tell you that for me, the payment handler system for example is huge (and XF2 supports 5 or 6 payment systems out of the box, not just PayPal).
 

iamacyborg

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
225
Making addons isn't easier, but the internal XF2 framework addons use is *much* better (which is saying a lot because the XF1 framework was already best in class).

There are also a decent number of new features beyond just feature parity. Not everyone has a use for each feature but I can tell you that for me, the payment handler system for example is huge (and XF2 supports 5 or 6 payment systems out of the box, not just PayPal).
How do you find it compares to IPB, if you have any experience with that?
 

Paul M

Limeade Addict
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
3,854
vB 5.0 was anything but that.
vB5 wasnt a complete rewite either.

They started with vB 4.1.4 (not a particularly great version ...) and just started rehashing it.
There is still quite a bit of vB3 and vB4 code in there, just moved around a bit. The ACP is probably 75% old code.
 

Fillip H.

Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
208
There are also a decent number of new features beyond just feature parity. Not everyone has a use for each feature but I can tell you that for me, the payment handler system for example is huge (and XF2 supports 5 or 6 payment systems out of the box, not just PayPal).
+1

We have two XF1 addons that made use of the old payment system, and naturally had to support bdPaygates because nobody wanted to be stuck with only PayPal. I have nothing but respect for the amount of work put into that mod (and all its 3rd party payment processors), but I am looking forward to not having to go through the same amount of trouble for XF2.

I haven't looked at the guts of IPB4, but I didn't care for the internals of the previous versions at all.
My only experience of the guts of IPB4 is that I had to download a "developer package" that was 1.5x the size of the actual forum software just to enable developer mode.

That was about the point where I noped out :p


Fillip
 

feldon30

Adherent
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
431
It's a reference to the infamous conversation of Kier trying to sell IB on a complete rewrite of the software. It sounds good but after 2+ years still waiting, people start wondering how far advanced would we be if this effort went into the existing software, which (at the time) was perfectly capable already.
Ultimately we'll never know, but just doing the math, it's certainly possible we could have seen something. After vB3.8, vBulletin 3 was an untenable mess. It was procedural non-modular code with no MVC practices whatsoever. It's a miracle and testament to Kier and Mike's skill that they were able to maintain and continue to add features to it despite its elephantine heft and increasingly unmaintainable codebase.
Wikipedia said:
On 4 August 2008, Kier Darby, former lead developer of vBulletin announced the development of vBulletin 3.8 and vBulletin 4.0.[15] vBulletin 4 was described in this announcement as "an extensive rewrite of the vBulletin system. Architecturally, vBulletin 4 follows MVC (model-view-controller) object oriented principles, allowing far greater capabilities in code re-use and extendability."
Wikipedia said:
XenForo is a commercial Internet forum software package written in the PHP programming language using the Zend Framework. The software is developed by former vBulletin lead developers Kier Darby and Mike Sullivan. The first public beta release of XenForo was released in October 2010. XenForo 1.0.0 Stable was released on March 8, 2011.
Ultimately, James Limm bears a lot of the blame for the misfortunes of Jelsoft and vBulletin. He forced through vB3.8 and CMS features and having a booth at that show at InternetWorld 2007 to attract a buyer so he could retire and buy a boat. Sincere work on vB4 could have begun in mid-2007. Mid-2007 to October 2010 is 2 1/2 years. That's sufficient time to have rewritten major portions of vBulletin and start having development versions available to try out, even if all the functionality didn't work yet.
 
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zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
6,974
I have a specific example of it not working if you have interest in opening a ticket to help make it better for existing users.

How do you find this post with search?

View attachment 46562

Search for keywords within the post:

View attachment 46561

Search for 1 keyword in the post specifically for that user:
View attachment 46563

I really don't have much of a need to search vbulletin.com any longer, but when I do, it appears to me that search still doesn't work properly.
I search vbulletin.com regularly but via Google because the internal search never seems to return any results at all, especially so if you copy/paste from the content you are searching for.

Google on the other hand found this at the first attempt: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/vbulletin-sales-and-feedback/site-feedback/340717-questions-i-would-like-to-see-joe-respond-to?p=2976832#post2976832
 
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