Should we upgrade our vB 3.8.11 forum?

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
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Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
Anton, I guess I simply have a different view and will agree to disagree. For me, its because I roll out security updates, along with frequent backups (every 4 hours, daily, weekly and monthly, plus offsite storage), and migrating away from EOL software, that I don't sweat it.

I've simply seen too many instances where a company didn't beat the odds. Back in the early 1990s one company I worked for who didn't take internal security seriously enough, they had a South Korean contractor send a copy of all their source code back to Korea. Another time, again with an employer who didn't take enough pre-emptive measures, they inadvertently infected their largest client's network with a nasty virus.

The odds of dying in a car accident in my lifetime are .17152658662093% I still wear my seat belt 100% of the time, though sometimes it may be uncomfortable, or inconvenient. I wear it not because I'm paranoid, but because while the odds are low, the consequences are high. I feel the same way about databases with thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of user records: my sites probably won't be hit but if they are I lose a great deal of trust from the users. That's my 30 years experience.

Question, is calling people who disagree "know it alls" a bit of haughty superiorism too? We all have a bit of that when it comes to our own opinions, lol. Much like surveys show the average person believes they are above average :2thumbs::centerofuniverse:
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
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The odds of dying in a car accident in my lifetime are .17152658662093% I still wear my seat belt 100% of the time, though sometimes it may be uncomfortable, or inconvenient. I wear it not because I'm paranoid, but because while the odds are low, the consequences are high.

Slightly off-topic I guess but that reminded me of an email I got today informing me of a data breach on a site I'm registered with. The breach occurred eight years ago in 2010 but according to the email, went unnoticed until 5th September 2018.

While the likelihood of a data breach on a forum is fairly low, the consequences in today's climate are very high and increasing exponentially. Some might say disproportionately.
 

Anton Chigurh

Ultimate Badass
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
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I've simply seen too many instances where a company didn't beat the odds.
And of course you and I both have seen many who do everything right, do every update, upgrade and patch religiously, who still get hacked.
Question, is calling people who disagree "know it alls" a bit of haughty superiorism too?
Out of context it could be seen that way. But in context clearly I was referring to myself from 15 years or so ago. Myself and my compatriots who were all about the gospel pipe, on many issues.
The odds of dying in a car accident in my lifetime are .17152658662093%
No idea your source for that or what country it's in, but my odds of that are far better. US National Safety Council pegs it at 1 in 303, lifetime. (.33%) Either way, odds not even close to the same than if we're talking about the vast, ever-expanding web.
my sites probably won't be hit but if they are I lose a great deal of trust from the users.
I can't actually speak for any of my users, kudos to you for being able to by the way - but when I've seen security events transpire they typically don't lose trust in the site or the admin, they get mad at mean ole hax0rs. But certainly I can't argue your feelings with you.
While the likelihood of a data breach on a forum is fairly low, the consequences in today's climate are very high and increasing exponentially. Some might say disproportionately.
And like the Q entity told Picard after he wailed about his 18 dead crew after the first forced encounter with the Borg, "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

Something each and every internet user should keep first in mind.
 

zappaDPJ

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And like the Q entity told Picard after he wailed about his 18 dead crew after the first forced encounter with the Borg, "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

I know that dialogue word for word. I guess I should get out more :D
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
Slightly off-topic I guess but that reminded me of an email I got today informing me of a data breach on a site I'm registered with. The breach occurred eight years ago in 2010 but according to the email, went unnoticed until 5th September 2018.

While the likelihood of a data breach on a forum is fairly low, the consequences in today's climate are very high and increasing exponentially. Some might say disproportionately.

The scary thing is as more breaches occur there's more data out in the wild to piece together and build profiles to know who the best targets are.
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
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Feb 20, 2007
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There are 1.8 billion websites on the internet. Daily 2000 - 3000 unique domains are exploited on average. It puts the average number at about 0.5% of all websites are hacked annually.

Fate. It protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise.
 

Destroy Repeat

DestroyRepeat.com
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
280
I'm going to skip the wall of text of this thread and say: "No."

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVED vB3. I think it's the last, and the very best version of vBulletin. Nothing will ever replace it under the leadership of vBulletin (Jelsoft). vB4 broke my some of my sites, and I never looked back.

I moved to xenForo, and I've been a happy license owner. I advise you to transfer to xenForo. That's all I'll say in this thread.
 

JayCeeS

The Alpacas Are After Me
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
894
Whether you go with Xenforo, IPS, vB5, etc... some members will not be happy and it will be a shock to their minds. So I would research all your options if you have the time to do so. In the end they are all forums and all basically work the same (create thread, reply to thread, send PM's) so figuring them out just takes a couple "days" of messing with them. You as the admin will need to know what is where cuz you will get asked. With that in mind I would say go with IPS (my fav) or Xenforo cuz you can take them for a test run with no cost to you. I do know on an IPS test site you can have some of your staff and members join it to sample it as well (dunno if you can do this with XF test site, and dunno what other softwares offer free testing)

Also, you could migrate to IPS Community in the Cloud. It's a higher monthly fee than buying the software and putting it on your own server, but you get all the IPS suite, all your server management is done for you and it is well under your $1000 a year budget. I use both the CIC and self host.

Free IPS Demo >> https://invisioncommunity.com/demo
Free Xenforo Demo >>> https://xenforo.com/demo/
 

RisingSun

Aspirant
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
36
I've been discussing this with a bunch of the members of my club, and many of them have experience with other forums on xenforo. It seems like this will be the easiest transition. So my next question is: how do we migrate so we maintain all our content, our photos & files remain linked (files are not in the database), old URLs don't become broken, etc.? I'm willing to pay for help with this. How would you all proceed? And is the latest version of xenforo the one to go to?
 

we_are_borg

Administrator
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
5,531
I've been discussing this with a bunch of the members of my club, and many of them have experience with other forums on xenforo. It seems like this will be the easiest transition. So my next question is: how do we migrate so we maintain all our content, our photos & files remain linked (files are not in the database), old URLs don't become broken, etc.? I'm willing to pay for help with this. How would you all proceed? And is the latest version of xenforo the one to go to?

If you are willing to pay then do so migrations are hard the bigger your site is. You cn then put blame on some one if it fails the contract you'll make should reflect that.
 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,391
So my next question is: how do we migrate so we maintain all our content, our photos & files remain linked (files are not in the database), old URLs don't become broken, etc.? I'm willing to pay for help with this. How would you all proceed? And is the latest version of xenforo the one to go to?

I believe that's a service mysiteguy can assist you with and I'm sure you'll be happy with his work. I would look at the latest version of Xenforo first and if that fits the majority of your requirements, go with that.
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
zappaDPJ , thank you for the reference.

RisingSun ,

The import itself with your size forum the standard built-in import tools should handle it quickly enough without having to purchase big board import services. And your URLs structure is such that the standard VBulletin redirect scripts will handle redirects. So that cuts down many of the headaches if you want to approach this yourself.

Do a backup between each step (installation, installing and changing the style, importing) so if you mess up you don't have to restart all the steps from scratch. Make sure maintain IDs is checked when doing the import.

There are a few "gotchas" which will impact your particular setup:

- You will need to purchase the XF Media Gallery so you can import your Photopost data.
- You will need custom redirects to handle redirecting Photopost to either XF1 or XF2. There's a free plugin to handle Photopost vbGallery, but not regular Photopost.
- You have VB's archive turned on, the stock redirects won't handle all of these, it will require custom rewrite rules to redirect those properly.

If you want to retain a VB 3.x look and feel, stick with XF 1.5 for now. There is a VB 3.x style for XF. It hasn't been updated in a long time, so once installed some template conflicts have to be merged. It takes about an hour or so of work for this step.

If you want to try to tackle some or all of this yourself, I'll be happy to give advice here on TAZ along the way. If you need some or all of it done for you, send me a conversation message. Either way, I'm happy to help - I don't do this sort of thing for a living, it's more of side gig thing so I'm not trying to sales pitch you. (My main income is community management and custom development for larger forums and WordPress development)
 

Destroy Repeat

DestroyRepeat.com
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
280
zappaDPJ , thank you for the reference.

RisingSun ,

The import itself with your size forum the standard built-in import tools should handle it quickly enough without having to purchase big board import services. And your URLs structure is such that the standard VBulletin redirect scripts will handle redirects. So that cuts down many of the headaches if you want to approach this yourself.

Do a backup between each step (installation, installing and changing the style, importing) so if you mess up you don't have to restart all the steps from scratch. Make sure maintain IDs is checked when doing the import.

There are a few "gotchas" which will impact your particular setup:

- You will need to purchase the XF Media Gallery so you can import your Photopost data.
- You will need custom redirects to handle redirecting Photopost to either XF1 or XF2. There's a free plugin to handle Photopost vbGallery, but not regular Photopost.
- You have VB's archive turned on, the stock redirects won't handle all of these, it will require custom rewrite rules to redirect those properly.

If you want to retain a VB 3.x look and feel, stick with XF 1.5 for now. There is a VB 3.x style for XF. It hasn't been updated in a long time, so once installed some template conflicts have to be merged. It takes about an hour or so of work for this step.

If you want to try to tackle some or all of this yourself, I'll be happy to give advice here on TAZ along the way. If you need some or all of it done for you, send me a conversation message. Either way, I'm happy to help - I don't do this sort of thing for a living, it's more of side gig thing so I'm not trying to sales pitch you. (My main income is community management and custom development for larger forums and WordPress development)
I agree with mostly everything here. Except Striked. Your forum seems a bit small. You can do this import yourself. Two things, though:

1. If you want to get "archive" redirected to your xF site, Jake says to use this: https://xenforo.com/community/resources/xenforo-redirects-for-vbulletin.6123/
2. Get a skin that reflects your site's overall theme (feel). I'm getting this orange/black vibe going on with your site especially with the orange logo you have up there... I suggest: https://pixelexit.com/products/core.1

Migrate to XF1 first to confirm everything is correct, then upgrade to the snappy, fast XF2. :D

Also, read this if you want: https://theadminzone.com/threads/up...nforo-right-choice.148057/page-3#post-1123785
 
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RisingSun

Aspirant
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
36
If you are willing to pay then do so migrations are hard the bigger your site is. You can then put blame on some one if it fails the contract you'll make should reflect that.

For sure, but the main thing I want to hire is expertise to save time and avoid deadends. My wife & I run a small business, and we recently hired someone to set up payroll for us. In an hour, she accomplished what would have taken us at least a day. Money well spent!

I believe that's a service mysiteguy can assist you with and I'm sure you'll be happy with his work. I would look at the latest version of Xenforo first and if that fits the majority of your requirements, go with that.

Thank you for the referral!

zappaDPJ , thank you for the reference.

RisingSun ,

The import itself with your size forum the standard built-in import tools should handle it quickly enough without having to purchase big board import services. And your URLs structure is such that the standard VBulletin redirect scripts will handle redirects. So that cuts down many of the headaches if you want to approach this yourself.

Do a backup between each step (installation, installing and changing the style, importing) so if you mess up you don't have to restart all the steps from scratch. Make sure maintain IDs is checked when doing the import.

There are a few "gotchas" which will impact your particular setup:

- You will need to purchase the XF Media Gallery so you can import your Photopost data.
- You will need custom redirects to handle redirecting Photopost to either XF1 or XF2. There's a free plugin to handle Photopost vbGallery, but not regular Photopost.
- You have VB's archive turned on, the stock redirects won't handle all of these, it will require custom rewrite rules to redirect those properly.

If you want to retain a VB 3.x look and feel, stick with XF 1.5 for now. There is a VB 3.x style for XF. It hasn't been updated in a long time, so once installed some template conflicts have to be merged. It takes about an hour or so of work for this step.

If you want to try to tackle some or all of this yourself, I'll be happy to give advice here on TAZ along the way. If you need some or all of it done for you, send me a conversation message. Either way, I'm happy to help - I don't do this sort of thing for a living, it's more of side gig thing so I'm not trying to sales pitch you. (My main income is community management and custom development for larger forums and WordPress development)

What version of xenforo are we using here on TAZ? This one seems pretty similar to vB 3.x. I think if we had something like this, we'd have very little pushback from our members.

RisingSun you’ll need 1 more post to be able to PM. Else mysiteguy need to start a PM with you.

Roger that. Thank you for the heads up!

I agree with mostly everything here. Except Striked. Your forum seems a bit small. You can do this import yourself. Two things, though:

1. If you want to get "archive" redirected to your xF site, Jake says to use this: https://xenforo.com/community/resources/xenforo-redirects-for-vbulletin.6123/
2. Get a skin that reflects your site's overall theme (feel). I'm getting this orange/black vibe going on with your site especially with the orange logo you have up there... I suggest: https://pixelexit.com/products/core.1

Migrate to XF1 first to confirm everything is correct, then upgrade to the snappy, fast XF2. :D

Also, read this if you want: https://theadminzone.com/threads/up...nforo-right-choice.148057/page-3#post-1123785

That Core theme is sweet!

Need to familiarize myself with the differences between XF1.5 and XF2. More choices, more things to learn!
 

Destroy Repeat

DestroyRepeat.com
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
280
What version of xenforo are we using here on TAZ?
A heavily modified version of xenForo 1. In the background it's XF1.5.22, but the skin is basically a modified XF1 skin. The skin is actually a custom skin by the same person who made the "core" skin. If you want more assurance: DestroyRepeat.com is a custom skin by Russ of PixelExit! :)
Need to familiarize myself with the differences between XF1.5 and XF2. More choices, more things to learn!
Don't. Just import your board to XF1.5, then upgrade to 2.0. Nothing more to learn. You're actually in a good position, unlike many folks stuck in 1.5 and lower. And especially those who run 1.5 at lower than PHP6.

Most of the features you like on TAZ is/are already in 2.0, and is coming via the 2.1 update.
 
Last edited:

Anton Chigurh

Ultimate Badass
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
1,398
There are 1.8 billion websites on the internet. Daily 2000 - 3000 unique domains are exploited on average. It puts the average number at about 0.5% of all websites are hacked annually.

Fate. It protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise.
Uhh... Yeah. How many of those events again, were because someone didn't 'upgrade' to the latest greatest thing or didn't religiously do all the patches, and didn't make sure his host's PHP was the latest-greatest? Moving the goalposts is always fun. Thanks for playing though.
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
I agree with mostly everything here. Except Striked. Your forum seems a bit small. You can do this import yourself. Two things, though:

1. If you want to get "archive" redirected to your xF site, Jake says to use this: https://xenforo.com/community/resources/xenforo-redirects-for-vbulletin.6123/
I was not aware the addon version handled the archive for XF. Useful info, and I learn new things all the time. I've got a boat load of custom redirects for XF1 to handle archives (works on XF2 also), but if the XF addon handles it that's one less thing to add during XF2 migrations.
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
A heavily modified version of xenForo 1. In the background it's XF1.5.22, but the skin is basically a modified XF1 skin. The skin is actually a custom skin by the same person who made the "core" skin. If you want more assurance: DestroyRepeat.com is a custom skin by Russ of PixelExit! :)

Don't. Just import your board to XF1.5, then upgrade to 2.0. Nothing more to learn. You're actually in a good position, unlike many folks stuck in 1.5 and lower. And especially those who run 1.5 at lower than PHP6.

PHP6? Did you typo that and mean 7, since they skipped a 6.0 release?
 

mysiteguy

Migration Expert
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
3,111
Uhh... Yeah. How many of those events again, were because someone didn't 'upgrade' to the latest greatest thing or didn't religiously do all the patches, and didn't make sure his host's PHP was the latest-greatest? Moving the goalposts is always fun. Thanks for playing though.

As to how many events were due to not upgrading, Sucuri published their numbers from cleanup requests for 2017. 64.6% of VBulletin cleanups were due to outdated platforms. Isn't data fun?

18-sucuri-2017-outdated-platforms.png

Though PHP statistics are harder to find, in 2014 41% of hacked Wordpress sites were hacked due to a security vulnerability on their hosting platform: https://www.wpwhitesecurity.com/state-of-security-of-wordpress-blogs-and-websites/
 
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