Fixed Re: Summarily closed political threads...

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s.molinari

Leader of Skooppa
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I'm fine with not calling a politician spineless here in the future.
Actually, it is perfectly ok to say what you did. There should be no rule against your opinion. However, the courtesy rule I was taught was, or rather the question you should always ask yourself is, "Would you say it to him (or her) in person too?" If you say yes to that question, and can stand by what you say, then yes, you should say it.

Though, the words you have used are also a personal insult.

You could probably come up with a number of better ways to get your point across, without being insulting, even indirectly. ;)

Scott
 

Shimei

Fan
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“Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates:
At the first gate, ask yourself “Is it true?”
At the second gate ask, “Is it necessary?”
At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?”
~ Rumi​

If your speech passes through these three gates, then speak confidently without fear of consequence.

Sorry, just a poem I was reminded of.

Enjoy,
William
 

mysiteguy

Devotee
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My very frank opinion ahead!!!

Though I am okay with not allowing the threads, I don't understand why not allow them? The convenience of the staff should never be a reason. I would not set rules on my site for my convenience, I set them for the users.

I can't speak for others, so I will share my own experience.....

Treat us like adults, most of us know when to put the gloves down... those that do not, and take it out of political threads... deal with them. But to summarily not allow it....harkens back to my early days as an admin, where I was on my 1st site, try ing to build it and so afraid of anyone getting offended that it ended up like a kindergarten. Pleasant, but not a whole lot of fun for adults.

On my current forums, I treat users as the adults they are, and allow them to express strong political beliefs and differences of opinion. They even name called. That's okay... because as adults, outside of such threads they are friends, help each other out, and even attend the same locals meets... and have a lot of fun on the site. Those who can't (and that is very rare)... are dealt with.

Maybe TAZ's staff doesn't believe this can exist here, but not only will I say it can... I can prove it does. Poet and I disagree on some things (some very intensely). But outside of those discussions we get along, reply to each others post cordially, and share knowledge in the same threads. I have sent her business (though the client turned out to be a major headache, sorry about that!) and I would do so again. I don't have to agree with someone's politics or they mine, for me to otherwise get along with them.

I am not advocating allowing a free for all, cussing at each other, or go beyond the occasional snippy remark and getting vile with each other.... I don't allow that at my sites. I am asking that we carefully consider what we disallow, and why.

You see, I believe the stricter you make it, the worse it can get. That's when people start hitting the report button, at every remark they see as the least bit negative. I know, for example, that I didn't use the report button here about any user's political beliefs... until TAZ staff started making it an issue. When they did... my feelings turned to "if I can't say such and such, then that user can't say so and so".
 

Shimei

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Treat us like adults, most of us know when to put the gloves down... those that do not, and take it out of political threads... deal with them. But to summarily not allow it....harkens back to my early days as an admin, where I was on my 1st site, try ing to build it and so afraid of anyone getting offended that it ended up like a kindergarten. Pleasant, but not a whole lot of fun for adults.
Boy, I'm finding the poet in all you tonight. Here's one from Rudyard Kipling. When I read your post mysiteguy, I asked, what is conduct befitting of an adult? Here's one for the men:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

Enjoy,
William
 

Lisa

Chaotically Proportional
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We're an admin forum, not a political, religious or ethical debates forum. While we do allow these threads, we also will close them when they start getting OTT. I personally would prefer not to see another political or religious thread on here again - and I LOVE discussing religion.
 

mysiteguy

Devotee
Joined
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Messages
2,995
It's actually one of my favorite poems, I've had it posted on my company site for a couple of years:

http://www.enthusiastzone.com/random-musings/

This was after a user I banned decided to try to destroy my character, even going so far as claiming to Google that I hacked into his account (even if I wanted to I don't have those black hat skills)! He managed to garner some following when he was banned but I knew if I took the high road things would work for me in the long run. Fast forward 2.5 years to the present: the forum he started hasn't had posting in months, all his friends are back on my site, he's still gone and 99% of my moderation headaches are gone with him! I also learned who my staff I could really count on so in the end it was a positive thing.
 

Danielx64

Developer
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Messages
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Have all of you lot forgot about the hot seat and what happened? It was killing the place. That one reason why I dont post in those type of topics here.
 

Shimei

Fan
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It's actually one of my favorite poems, I've had it posted on my company site for a couple of years:

http://www.enthusiastzone.com/random-musings/
Lemme share my favorite poem, one I had memorized and hadn't recalled until a moment ago. Then it is off to bed for me.

THE POEM I SHOULD LIKE TO WRITE

The poem I should like to write was written long ago,
In vast primeval valleys and on mountains clad in snow;
It was written where no foot of man or beast had ever trod,
And where the first wild flower turned its smiling face to God;
Where mighty winds swept far and wide o'er dark and sullen seas,
And where the first earth-mother sat, a child upon her knees.
The poem I should like to write is written in the stars,
Where Venus holds her glowing torch behind her gleaming bars;
Where old Arcturus swings his lamp across the fields of space,
And all his brilliant retinue is wheeling into place;
Where unknown suns must rise and set, as ages onward fare
The poem I should like to write is surely written there.
No human hand can write it, for with a pen divine,
The Master Poet wrote it each burning word and line.

~Margaret A. Windes~

Enjoy and G'night,
William
 

PoetJC

⚧ Jacquii: Chenyneh Kween ⚧
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Have all of you lot forgot about the hot seat and what happened? It was killing the place. That one reason why I dont post in those type of topics here.
The hot seat was not "killing the place" LOL
Anyway ... You understand why I've made the suggestion then. So do others. Great.
Meanwhile - let's have some passing aggressive something-or-other (derailing?) of the suggestion thread with poetry. Meh. Oh joy. :sleep:

J.
 

Lisa

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The hot seat was not "killing the place" LOL
It was giving it a damn good try and the negativity from a lot of those posts did seep out into the main board - and that wasn't a positive thing.
 

Danielx64

Developer
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It was giving it a damn good try and the negativity from a lot of those posts did seep out into the main board - and that wasn't a positive thing.
Thank you, I am glad that someone see how I was looking at this :)
 

PoetJC

⚧ Jacquii: Chenyneh Kween ⚧
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It was giving it a damn good try and the negativity from a lot of those posts did seep out into the main board - and that wasn't a positive thing.
There was some interesting back-and-forth there.

A lot of folks took it waaaaay to personally. If I'm to be honest - some of the discussion I took a bit personally. Mainly because some of the comments were framed in a way meant to hurt, and not enlighten. But at the end of the day - I like to think that there was at least some education about each others' journey, each others' perspectives & each others' actual thought process. I learned a LOT. Education, no matter how tedious and offensive, is NEVER a bad thing. Especially when it's education via words as opposed to education via getting your butt disrespected and smacked, which is a different type of thing entirely, and may be misconstrued as education... This coming from the one who just advocated for not sparing the infamous rod a bit earlier.. :LOL:

I understand the party line though ==> Not right for TAZ.
It's why I made this suggestion thread.

J.
 

Lisa

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I learned a LOT
I learned a lot about members that I really would have rather not known, but the biggest lesson learned was that TAZ is not the place for that kind of thing ;)
 

PoetJC

⚧ Jacquii: Chenyneh Kween ⚧
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I learned a lot about members that I really would have rather not known, but the biggest lesson learned was that TAZ is not the place for that kind of thing ;)
Yup. I edited my above post to include an additional two sentences:

I understand the party line though ==> Not right for TAZ.
It's why I made this suggestion thread.
 

Tracy Perry

Opinionated asshat
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Since you specifically mentioned me, actually PoetJC, you are normally the one that brings race into it... funny how you don't see it - but many others do.
 
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VICE

tool
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Messages
2,735
It's soooo frustrating coming back from a wee bit of a hiatus, seeing someone has quoted you and you can no longer respond. To alleviate frustration and since the threads are generally closed anyway - Why not make it a site-wide rule that
  1. political discussions are simply no longer allowed on TAZ OR BETTER YET...
  2. allow political discussion threads to remain open, thread-banning all who engage in personal attacks.
I favor option 1.
Option 2 is unenforceable due to bias in favor of the extreme right which unfortunately seems to have a lot of subscribers here.
 

Danielx64

Developer
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Robust Shouldn't you have a solution for this?
There was one but it didn't work. Although there another idea: have the hot seat but you must be invited or be approved by staff and if you misbehaviour then you get kicked out.
 

VICE

tool
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Although there another idea: have the hot seat but you must be invited or be approved by staff and if you misbehaviour then you get kicked out.
The staff would only approve those with the same ideological leaning.
The bias is real.

I can still remember vividly the last time I was thread banned all the while those on the opposing side with equally rabid behavior were let loose unhindered. I'm not going to allow myself to suffer such level of treatment ever again, thus why I much prefer the nuclear option - at least it's fair.
 
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