MyBB Commercial Plugins Discussion

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Mythotical

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The first sentence I quoted is:

That is generalising an opinion to make it sound more factual.

Mythotical, what "stats" at you looking at?
If you are asking then obviously there is no use in stating it as you will just go against anything your shown. But my intentions behind the post were to make a point which wasn't taken obviously so after this I'm backing out of this thread.
 

Ryan Gordon

Ex-MyBB Lead Developer
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That being said, Ryan, there is no reason to be as hostile as you have been in this discussion. Clearly a decent number of users take issue with your allowing commercial plugins -- no amount of arguing (especially with your apparent lack of tact) is going to convince them otherwise. It is of course within the right of MyBB to alter their license and openly embrace commercial plugins. It is, however, not within your right (and frankly extremely bad from an image standpoint), for you to stand with so much hostility when individuals question your motives. Keep in mind that you were the one who chose to enter this discussion, and also remember that your behaviour directly represents your product. When your argument is reduced to the pedantics and hostility, there is no positive way out.
Please show me where I have been hostile or tactless, and not just trying to represent the ideals of the MyBB Group, so I can learn from my mistakes?

Would you rather the MyBB Group not participate in or clarify any issues that arise? Especially after they are being brought up for the 6 or 7th time? You can see how that wear and tears on us staff members, and if you think you have a better way, then please enlighten me.

Would you please quit with the spinning. Grow up and accept some responsibility for a change. And you wonder why i bring up your age.
Can you please elaborate as to what exact "spinning" I have done and what responsibilities I haven't accepted, so I can learn from my mistakes?
 
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Marshalrusty

phpBB Project Manager
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If you are asking then obviously there is no use in stating it as you will just go against anything your shown. But my intentions behind the post were to make a point which wasn't taken obviously so after this I'm backing out of this thread.
Certainly can't argue with that :)

Why bring up valid points when it's just so much easier to state an informal fallacy and then claim the "high road" when someone calls you out on it?
 

Roswell3980

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Please show me where I have been hostile or tactless, and not just trying to represent the ideals of the MyBB Group, so I can learn from my mistakes?

Would you rather the MyBB Group not participate in or clarify any issues that arise? Especially after they are being brought up for the 6 or 7th time? You can see how that wear and tears on us staff members, and if you think you have a better way, then please enlighten me.
A large part of public relations (and, on a more personal note, maturity) is not only knowing what to say, but when nothing should be said. It is quite obvious that some people are firmly against your decisions. As I noted previously, you aren't going to convince them otherwise, nor will they convince you of anything. It's a fruitless battle that you're never going to win.
 

Ryan Gordon

Ex-MyBB Lead Developer
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A large part of public relations (and, on a more personal note, maturity) is not only knowing what to say, but when nothing should be said. It is quite obvious that some people are firmly against your decisions. As I noted previously, you aren't going to convince them otherwise, nor will they convince you of anything. It's a fruitless battle that you're never going to win.
And how many times is HarryWx going to bring up this discussion if we don't respond, and in the end start creating threads that say the MyBB Group doesn't care about it's users opinions and create an even worse rep. for us? We loose either way when it comes to Harry.
 

NeoThermic

Developer
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Jan 26, 2005
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motokochan said:
I could say the same for you. The license SMF is under prohibits redistribution of SMF itself. It says nothing on modification packages that you must pay for. There are no restrictions on selling your own work. In fact, we do allow paid services and modifications, and there are a few out there, actually.
Are you sure? If so, then SMF's license is a bit confusing. It specifically states "This Package, Modified Packages, and derivative works may not be sold or released under any paid license."

The way the FSF defines derivative works would include modifications and plugins as far as I understand it.
Just to interject here, the FSF's definitions are null and void in the SMF licence; said licence is not mandated or controlled by the FSF and never would be due to it's restrictive nature when compared to the GPL or other compatible licences.

Further still, you're missing a key point on your choice quote; the SMF licence is referring to derivative works of the main package as a whole.

Indeed, the definitions section agrees:

Definitions

1. This Package is defined as all of the files within any archive file or any group of files released in conjunction by Simple Machines, Simple Machines LLC, or a derived or modified work based on such files.
2. A Modification, or a Mod, is defined as instructions, to be performed manually or in an automated manner, that alter any part of this Package.
3. A Modified Package is defined as this Package or a derivative of it with one or more Modification applied to it.
4. Distribution is defined as allowing one or more other people to in any way download or receive a copy of this Package, a Modified Package, or a derivative of this Package.
5. The Software is defined as an installed copy of this Package, a Modified Package, or a derivative of this Package.
Thus I see nothing there that would contradict what motokochan said, and further still with motokochan being the Simple Machines Project Manager, I'd expect him to know their licence rather well

NeoThermic
 

Mythotical

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Certainly can't argue with that :)

Why bring up valid points when it's just so much easier to state an informal fallacy and then claim the "high road" when someone calls you out on it?
Hahahaha, you just proved my point. I rest my case. Enjoy your time here.
 

NeoThermic

Developer
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Jan 26, 2005
Messages
40
Hahahaha, you just proved my point. I rest my case. Enjoy your time here.
Eh? You said there were stats, Marshalrusty asked to see the stats, you said that there's no point in showing him the stats as no matter what they are he'll argue them to be irrelevant.

In short order you're showing a great example of the fallacy of false attribution, where upon you've mentioned a source which you are unprepared to back up, and you're also showing an example of the fallacy of style over substance; you're more than happy to mention a source when it suits you, but when you're challenged on it you present an ad hominem assumption of the person requesting the source.

I put to you the idea that you should either provide the source or indicate that the source is not real. The question to you is about the source, the answer is the location of the source, so make with.

NeoThermic
 

HarryWx

IPB 3.0+ User
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And how many times is HarryWx going to bring up this discussion if we don't respond, and in the end start creating threads that say the MyBB Group doesn't care about it's users opinions and create an even worse rep. for us? We loose either way when it comes to Harry.

Correction.. You all dont seem to care where THIS ISSUE is concerned. I never said this about anything else. And sorry you dont because you have not even given the otherside of the issue any thought but instead have done nothing but challenge those who dissagree with the paid plugins. And PLEASE STOP with the i am the only one who is against them too. Need i link every thread where a good number of others has expressed the same dislike for them?

Again take some responsibility for your own actions. Thus stop acting like you are a god on a power trip. That is what i believe is rubbing people the wrong way. Yeah i take issue when someone who is young enough to be my son starts telling me how the world works or tries to pull some power trip over on me which you do alot. You want me to be more pleasent then i suggest you change your attitude as well. And lastly stop with the constant shifting of blame onto others which you just did again in your reply above to the other poster. And that btw is as well spinning and thus what i mean by it. You just tried spinning the blame over to me and sugested that i am the only one who takes issue with the Paid Plugins. Thus again why i say for you to take some responsibility. Main thing is for you to stop talking down to people. Yeah i do it to but usually after i am provoked which yeah you provoked it with your first response to this thread. I am not saying this all either to be mean. Just giving some friendly advise. You wanna be treated with respect then i suggest you giving some as well. You do it and so will i and thats a promise.
 

Ryan Gordon

Ex-MyBB Lead Developer
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Correction.. You all dont seem to care where THIS ISSUE is concerned.
If I didn't care deeply, then I wouldn't bother with this discussion.

I never said this about anything else. And sorry you dont because you have not even given the otherside of the issue any thought but instead have done nothing but challenge those who dissagree with the paid plugins. And PLEASE STOP with the i am the only one who is against them too. Need i link every thread where a good number of others has expressed the same dislike for them?
I can see the common sense in coming to a free, open source project, and expecting other related work to be free. In return, all I say is that we, the MyBB Group, don't feel the need to squelch the "free market" and I am trying to explain that, in response to your posts, to the best of my current abilities.

Again take some responsibility for your own actions.
How can you even say that? I am here, on my own behalf for MyBB, standing up on my words, when I'd be hard pressed to say that anyone else would.

Yeah i take issue when someone who is young enough to be my son starts telling me how the world works or tries to pull some power trip over on me which you do alot.
You describe your wording often so extemporaneously, in essence all I can make out is really you are saying those who are younger then you can't interject their opinions and ever hold water [with you], or have positions higher then where you stand in the midst of an argument because it makes you feel belittled?

If I didn't care what other people's opinions are, then I wouldn't even bother responding.

Main thing is for you to stop talking down to people. Yeah i do it to but usually after i am provoked which yeah you provoked it with your first response to this thread.
All I can say is that after this being brought up 7 or 8 times and the state of your ill-equanimous repetitive responses, then yeh, it would start to wear on anyone.


On a more related note, this article does a good job describing what issue I currently partake with the GNU/GPL license. It's a good read: http://www.law.washington.edu/lct/swp/Law/derivative.html
 

Lisa

Chaotically Proportional
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D'you know what? I've just about had enough of this. I'm closing this thread, it's been done to death and is now ridiculous.

To make myself perfectly clear, if I see another thread harping on about whether mods should be paid or free for myBB I'll delete it immediately.

Enough is enough.
 
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