Invision charges a renewal fee every 6 months?

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Tracy Perry

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This is true hence why I'm trying the cloud but I'm already not liking. Limited to what I can do and their support forum is practically empty unlike xenforo and vbulletin where you get a response fairly quick. That to me is a big negative. I'm most likely just going to stick with Xenforo.
I found that when I had an active license (which allowed me the "permission" to get peer support) most of the users on their site could not answer technical questions as they had no real knowledge into that level. They were more "owners' than "administrators", even though they liked to refer themselves as an admin on their site(s).
The peer to peer forum posts frequently went unanswered and the staff could not be troubled to answer in forums, requiring you to submit a ticket. Guess they couldn't have an answer to what could be a possible common issue let out to be known by the general "active license holders". You know, just a method to force an active license to get support via ticket only.
 

we_are_borg

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Tracy Perry but if supports helps on forum anyone can look it up and not have to go to support. So by not answering they protect there income.
 

NYCGuy76

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I found that when I had an active license (which allowed me the "permission" to get peer support) most of the users on their site could not answer technical questions as they had no real knowledge into that level. They were more "owners' than "administrators", even though they liked to refer themselves as an admin on their site(s).
The peer to peer forum posts frequently went unanswered and the staff could not be troubled to answer in forums, requiring you to submit a ticket. Guess they couldn't have an answer to what could be a possible common issue let out to be known by the general "active license holders". You know, just a method to force an active license to get support via ticket only.

Yeah I'm seeing that as well. It's a shame too. With Xenforo and even vbulletin you don't have that problem. If you have a problem with the software you'll always get quick responses over at their support forums even by experienced forum owners. I asked one question over at the Invision forum and I'm still waiting for an answer lol. Not to mention I saw lots of unanswered threads too. That's definitely a no no in my book. If the **** hits the fan with your software sometimes you can't wait till someone feels like looking at your support ticket. Ridiculous if you ask me considering you're a paying customer. God forbid if you get stuck on a weekend. You're screwed! LOL
 

NYCGuy76

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Wow I just saw that they charge 500 bucks for branding removal! I was complaining about Xenforo being 300 but 500? What a rip off! I'm definitely cancelling my cloud and sticking with Xenforo.
 

borbole

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Wow I just saw that they charge 500 bucks for branding removal! I was complaining about Xenforo being 300 but 500? What a rip off! I'm definitely cancelling my cloud and sticking with Xenforo.

Why is that a rip off? Expensive for some, yes, but a rip off, definitely not.

But I have a feeling that even if the price was 5 dollars, you will still cry rip off/expensive lol :D
 

NYCGuy76

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Why is that a rip off? Expensive for some, yes, but a rip off, definitely not.

But I have a feeling that even if the price was 5 dollars, you will still cry rip off/expensive lol :D
Because 500 dollars is a rip off. What makes them so special that they can charge that much as opposed to other forum softwares and don’t say because they can. Also I have a feeling that you’re a mor.n but I’ll leave it at that.😂
 

haqzore

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Because 500 dollars is a rip off. What makes them so special that they can charge that much as opposed to other forum softwares and don’t say because they can. Also I have a feeling that you’re a mor.n but I’ll leave it at that.😂
In my opinion, 500 or 300 or frankly anything is a fair price for branding removal.

The reason is branding removal is mostly geared towards corporate type communities. And many corporations/companies are ok spending 500.

Branding removal for hobbyists like myself and most on TAZ is entirely unnecessary. Even if it was $50 I wouldn't spring for it.

"White labeling" platforms is never cheap, be it a software script or smart phone app.
 

NYCGuy76

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In my opinion, 500 or 300 or frankly anything is a fair price for branding removal.

The reason is branding removal is mostly geared towards corporate type communities. And many corporations/companies are ok spending 500.

Branding removal for hobbyists like myself and most on TAZ is entirely unnecessary. Even if it was $50 I wouldn't spring for it.

"White labeling" platforms is never cheap, be it a software script or smart phone app.
I have an issue with branding fees in general. I feel that if you pay for a product you shouldn't have to advertise their product for them for free which is exactly what you're doing. Sure you could always say just don't buy the product but that's not the point. Three hundred is a ripoff but five hundred that's crazy. Can you imagine owning a community that has 100 visitors (which is little) at any given time and lets say in a month one of those visitors purchases Invision's software thanks to you advertising it for them? Think about it. You purchase the software that's 200 alone. Then the renewal fees every six months and your forum is bringing them potential buyers. If anything they should be paying us for all the potential people and buyers that will be seeing their link on the bottom lol. I don't know maybe I'm missing something here.
 

zappaDPJ

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I have an issue with branding fees in general. I feel that if you pay for a product you shouldn't have to advertise their product for them for free which is exactly what you're doing. Sure you could always say just don't buy the product but that's not the point. Three hundred is a ripoff but five hundred that's crazy. Can you imagine owning a community that has 100 visitors (which is little) at any given time and lets say in a month one of those visitors purchases Invision's software thanks to you advertising it for them? Think about it. You purchase the software that's 200 alone. Then the renewal fees every six months and your forum is bringing them potential buyers. If anything they should be paying us for all the potential people and buyers that will be seeing their link on the bottom lol. I don't know maybe I'm missing something here.

The majority of my clients are corporate and do not allow advertising in any form on the forums I manage on their behalf so I'm obliged to pay for branding removal and pass on the cost. Conversely I'm happy to display branding on my personal forums and save money.

Supposing the developer chose to remove all branding but added x number of dollars to the cost of the product to restore the balance, would that be preferable? I'll admit I'm a cynic at heart but I like to think I'm saving money by allowing the developer to advertise the product I'm using.

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance of branding so to offer a brand free option should be seen as exceptional and you should expect to pay a premium price. For the majority (perhaps all) forum products it's a one-off cost for a product you might use for 10-20 years and in those terms even $500 seems like a bargain to me.

The short version is there are two ways to view this. One is the perception of a high cost to the customer while the other is a huge loss of income to the developer when branding is removed e.g. just two lost sales is equivelent to the cost of branding removal.
 

NYCGuy76

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The majority of my clients are corporate and do not allow advertising in any form on the forums I manage on their behalf so I'm obliged to pay for branding removal and pass on the cost. Conversely I'm happy to display branding on my personal forums and save money.

Supposing the developer chose to remove all branding but added x number of dollars to the cost of the product to restore the balance, would that be preferable? I'll admit I'm a cynic at heart but I like to think I'm saving money by allowing the developer to advertise the product I'm using.

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance of branding so to offer a brand free option should be seen as exceptional and you should expect to pay a premium price. For the majority (perhaps all) forum products it's a one-off cost for a product you might use for 10-20 years and in those terms even $500 seems like a bargain to me.

The short version is there are two ways to view this. One is the perception of a high cost to the customer while the other is a huge loss of income to the developer when branding is removed e.g. just two lost sales is equivelent to the cost of branding removal.

I'd rather pay 500 dollars for the software if it means with that price I don't have to pay for branding removal than having to pay 200 for the software and then an extra 500 for the product. Like I said for me it's just the principal. Look I'm not in the business of creating and selling software, scripts and the what not. I'm electrician by day. I wire and power electrical system and turn your lights on lol. I see it differently. Maybe if I was in the business of selling digital products I might think differently but that's not the case. You're saying the developer is going to lose money by not charging a branding fee. How so? Somebody is paying you to use your product and paying you extra for so call support every 3, 6 or whatever months. If somebody wants to know what product you're using they can find that out pretty easily without looking at the bottom of the screen for an advertisement of the product software. Also I'd like to think if you're going to want to purchase a forum or a software you have some technical skills and know that all you have to do is inspect the page or view source etc.
 

haqzore

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I have an issue with branding fees in general. I feel that if you pay for a product you shouldn't have to advertise their product for them for free which is exactly what you're doing. Sure you could always say just don't buy the product but that's not the point. Three hundred is a ripoff but five hundred that's crazy. Can you imagine owning a community that has 100 visitors (which is little) at any given time and lets say in a month one of those visitors purchases Invision's software thanks to you advertising it for them? Think about it. You purchase the software that's 200 alone. Then the renewal fees every six months and your forum is bringing them potential buyers. If anything they should be paying us for all the potential people and buyers that will be seeing their link on the bottom lol. I don't know maybe I'm missing something here.
Name a product you buy that doesn't have branding on it.

Cars.

Washer / dryer.

A box of cereal.

Most clothes.


Websites are no different.


Nearly all require credit / acknowledgement when you use their images or articles.


Everything is branded. Its always been like that. Luckily, some of these companies give us an option to remove branding if desired. And even luckier still, if I don't remove the branding, my site doesn't perform any differently and my user's experience is completely unchanged.
 

NYCGuy76

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Name a product you buy that doesn't have branding on it.

Cars.

Washer / dryer.

A box of cereal.

Most clothes.


Websites are no different.


Nearly all require credit / acknowledgement when you use their images or articles.


Everything is branded. Its always been like that. Luckily, some of these companies give us an option to remove branding if desired. And even luckier still, if I don't remove the branding, my site doesn't perform any differently and my user's experience is completely unchanged.

You could always take the emblems off from a car, cover or paint over the box of cereal, remove the label from the shirt because now you own the product. What you can't do is create a product that's not yours and claim it as yours. That's called counterfeiting. It's a big difference. With a website you can't do that unless they say its ok or unless you pay to do it. So yes websites are different.
 

haqzore

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You could always take the emblems off from a car, cover or paint over the box of cereal, remove the label from the shirt because now you own the product. What you can't do is create a product that's not yours and claim it as yours. That's called counterfeiting. It's a big difference. With a website you can't do that unless they say its ok or unless you pay to do it. So yes websites are different.
Not sure where the "counterfeiting" came from... Has nothing to do with the conversation, but maybe my response was worded poorly.

My point s, literally everything we buy & use is branded. If you buy a Toyota to drive people around, every person you drive around will know its a Toyota.

If you buy a pair of Nike shoes, every person that sees them will know they're Nike.

Every channel you watch on TV flashes the station logo in the corner. And the TV you're watching it on has the name all over it, too.


Every website you visit has logos and link back requirements for using their material.



So just like your car passenger's experience is wholly unchanged by the logo on the outside, your forum users too wouldn't know the difference whether the Xenforo logo was in the footer or not. I mean, how many people ever even pay attention to the footer?

But it just so happens forum software companies give an option to remove them. But what's the point? Would you pay twice the price of a car just to get it without logos? Of course not.

So why do we feel a compelling need to remove a forum footer? And why should we get to do it for free? Especially when the product functions exactly the same regardless?



I'm not trying to be confrontational, I honestly don't understand it. We've had 1 user (zappaDPJ) who stated a reason companies need branding removal, and they're happily paying the fees. So right now, 100% of customers actually paying the fee for branding removal, seem to have no problem doing it.
 

NYCGuy76

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Not sure where the "counterfeiting" came from... Has nothing to do with the conversation, but maybe my response was worded poorly.

My point s, literally everything we buy & use is branded. If you buy a Toyota to drive people around, every person you drive around will know its a Toyota.

If you buy a pair of Nike shoes, every person that sees them will know they're Nike.

Every channel you watch on TV flashes the station logo in the corner. And the TV you're watching it on has the name all over it, too.


Every website you visit has logos and link back requirements for using their material.



So just like your car passenger's experience is wholly unchanged by the logo on the outside, your forum users too wouldn't know the difference whether the Xenforo logo was in the footer or not. I mean, how many people ever even pay attention to the footer?

But it just so happens forum software companies give an option to remove them. But what's the point? Would you pay twice the price of a car just to get it without logos? Of course not.

So why do we feel a compelling need to remove a forum footer? And why should we get to do it for free? Especially when the product functions exactly the same regardless?



I'm not trying to be confrontational, I honestly don't understand it. We've had 1 user (zappaDPJ) who stated a reason companies need branding removal, and they're happily paying the fees. So right now, 100% of customers actually paying the fee for branding removal, seem to have no problem doing it.
You tried comparing websites to physical products and I explained that with a physical product you could always remove the branding. You can’t do that with a website without approval or paying for removal.

There’s really nothing to understand. I say tomato you say potato. We just see things differently when it comes to branding. Simple as that.
 

KimmiKat

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Long ago I set up a site for a store and they asked about the branding removal. The decided the branding didn't bother them and didn't opt for the removal as they found the mboard software via another site clicking on the link on the bottom. I think eons ago one of the mboard software which had their brand at the bottom it wasn't a link. I could be wrong, but somehow remember that.
 

Nev_Dull

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I have no problem with forum software branding, to a point. I don't mind having a line in the footer displaying the software name. As someone said, that's no different from having "Samsung" printed on your phone or television. Where I start to get uncomfortable is when the company name/logo is also a link.

I also see no issue with keeping the software name in the footer but removing the link. Is that taking food from the mouths of those poor software developers? I doubt it. I think there is a line between displaying their brand name and acting as an agent for them by providing a link to their site. Going back to the car example someone mentioned; it's fine to drive around with Toyota on your vehicle, but would you want to slap a sign on the rear with the company website and phone number?

Charging a fee to remove branding from the software is reasonable. After all, brand recognition does help drive sales and we should expect to pay something for completely removing the brand from the software we use. On the other hand, if software vendors want us to act as agents promoting their software, even if it is done passively by providing linking to their sites, they should expect to pay for that through discounted pricing.
 

Oh!

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Hi all,

To be frank, I find some of the arguments in this thread a bit weird. One the one hand, we have strong proponents of free speech principles who are also strongly against a free-market. Unusual. On the other, we have arguments against the use of links. Hyperlinks are part of hypertext, and hypertext is at the core of the Hypertext Transfer Protocols (HTTP) protocols. I am sure most of you here know this, but some seem to have forgotten the underlying basis of the Internet. :oops:

Of course it is fine to complain about the business model of a particular company if you find it lacking or it rubs you up the wrong way. But unless they do not deliver on what they promise in return for your money, in no way should their services or products be described as a 'rip off', as this strongly implies deceit.

I am sure we all frequent (or even operate) some sites which offer an 'ad-free' option for a price. Is this inherently wrong, or just the business model employed by the service provider? It is the same with some forum software. If you don't like the business model and/or price structure, don't buy it. But it really is not worth getting bent out of shape about it unless you have - in actuality - been duped or ripped off.

I too like a good moan about many things. And sometimes - I expect - I take it too far. But this seems excessive for what is the perceived problem here.
 

Tracy Perry

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Name a product you buy that doesn't have branding on it.

Cars.

Washer / dryer.

A box of cereal.

Most clothes.


Websites are no different.


Nearly all require credit / acknowledgement when you use their images or articles.


Everything is branded. Its always been like that. Luckily, some of these companies give us an option to remove branding if desired. And even luckier still, if I don't remove the branding, my site doesn't perform any differently and my user's experience is completely unchanged.
Not exactly the same.
I can take any markings off my vehicle without having to pay the manufacturer to do that.
Same with my washer/dryer.
Same with my TV.
Same with my clothes.
I can pour the cereal into another container (Ziploc bag) and continue eating it.
 

we_are_borg

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Software is been always like that you can remove all branding from any object unless its software.
 
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