Global warming ‘isn’t the great threat we were told’

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
Standing out in it felt like a furnace, tolerable for only a short period as 40C is well above body temperature.
I can understand if you’re not used to it it is a shock. I’ve regularly worked outside in 110° (43°C) heat, staying hydrated is the key. You can be surprised with what you can tolerate if you must. If global warming is headed where it’s being predicted then welcome to your new normal.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: FTL

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
Pointless as this leads loss of agriculture which we rely on for food,
What? Crops will grow just fine with the natural carbon cycle.
Many jobs will be lost due to hyper 'the shy is falling' claims of climate change.
And many more will be created.

This always baffled me about West Virginia. If we’re going to move away from coal and those workers are going to lose their jobs, let’s build factories for renewable energy components there. Let’s train those workers to install and service the equipment. It certainly beats going down a mine and pays better too.
 

Jura

Devotee
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
2,173
If people haven't noticed the somewhat right of center party the Democrats push "green" for job creation. Problem from that comes from greenwashing, more exploitation obviously, and having people buy a bunch of stuff before wearing out what they have.
 

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
What? Crops will grow just fine with the natural carbon cycle.

And many more will be created.

This always baffled me about West Virginia. If we’re going to move away from coal and those workers are going to lose their jobs, let’s build factories for renewable energy components there. Let’s train those workers to install and service the equipment. It certainly beats going down a mine and pays better too.
I’m sure the grand ideas will comfort these 8,000 workers when they are fired.
 

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
I’m sure the grand ideas will comfort these 8,000 workers when they are fired.

Such a Luddite statement. Auto manufacturers hire and fire by the thousands constantly. Just a few months ago I was writing articles about Ford adding 6,200 workers, and back in September, Ford announced 11,000 additional workers at an all-new EV campus in Tennesee.

So, I see your 8,000 and raise you 17,200.

Do you lament all the candle stick jobs lost by the invention of the electric light? Should we still be using lamps powered by whale oil?

Whatever will those unemployed buggy whip makers do?! *clutches pearls and uses his best Blanch Deveroux voice*
 

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
Such a Luddite statement. Auto manufacturers hire and fire by the thousands constantly. Just a few months ago I was writing articles about Ford adding 6,200 workers, and back in September, Ford announced 11,000 additional workers at an all-new EV campus in Tennesee.

So, I see your 8,000 and raise you 17,200.

Do you lament all the candle stick jobs lost by the invention of the electric light? Should we still be using lamps powered by whale oil?

Whatever will those unemployed buggy whip makers do?! *clutches pearls and uses his best Blanch Deveroux voice*
I’m sure all who lose their jobs will appreciate being called Ludites because they want to work and support their families. Why is it when faced with truths inconvenient to your narratives the typical retort is name calling?

And FTR I regularly burn candles, beeswax to be specific. Pleasant natural aroma and a wonderful warm glow. Excellent for viewing my flat earth map.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
627
Why is it when faced with truths inconvenient to your narratives the typical retort is name calling?
Because they have small minds and can't formulate an appropriate intellectual response. That and I think their parents never taught them respect for others opinions.
 

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
I’m sure all who lose their jobs will appreciate being called Ludites because they want to work and support their families. Why is it when faced with truths inconvenient to your narratives the typical retort is name calling?
They'll likely be offered training and/or relocation to the new facilities that Ford is building. They don't have to accept it, but they'll be offered it.

The truth is far deeper than the headlines you post. You're in areas and industries that I've worked in for nearly two decades. I don't know who else on this site has worked in both energy and automotive for 15+ year, but in any such list of users with that particular expertise, I'll be in the top three.

It is luddite thinking because you are just "concern trolling".

You don't actually care about new technology displacing jobs... if you did you'd have an issue with Amazon and what they're doing to the retail sector.

You don't actually care about new technology displacing jobs...You're not actually against ATMs and mobile deposit are you? That technology cost many thousands of bank teller jobs. I hope you also boycott Paypal, Zelle, Venmo, and Cashapp.

You don't actually care about new technology displacing jobs... or you'd be against Uber/Lyft for cutting into the Taxi cab market.

You don't actually care about new technology displacing jobs... or you'd be against self-service gas pumps.

Because they have small minds and can't formulate an appropriate intellectual response. That and I think their parents never taught them respect for others opinions.
I think I have proven myself repeatedly here to have significant intellectual depth on both of these subjects (energy and autos). I have provided pages upon pages of long-form rebuttals to most every post you make (now, including this one). I provide authoritative links to back up my counterpoints. When trapped in a corner, you grab your goalposts and run to another spot while yelling "Well, whatabout this?!?!"

However... sometimes a Luddite is just a Luddite and going into long form is simply a waste of everyone's bandwidth because the Luddite is too thick to understand it.

Ford is laying off 8,000 and hiring 17,000 for EV work. Math is Math.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,492
If people haven't noticed the somewhat right of center party the Democrats push "green" for job creation. Problem from that comes from greenwashing, more exploitation obviously, and having people buy a bunch of stuff before wearing out what they have.
I think that's more of a marketing issue than a green initiative one.
 

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
If people haven't noticed the somewhat right of center party the Democrats push "green" for job creation. Problem from that comes from greenwashing, more exploitation obviously, and having people buy a bunch of stuff before wearing out what they have.
It depends on what it is.... sometimes keeping old things in service does more harm than replacing with new. I have a 1981 car that still runs and drives fine. I don't use it much, but from a carbon perspective, if I were to be using it as a commuter car it would be better for the environment for me to replace it.
 

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
They'll likely be offered training and/or relocation to the new facilities that Ford is building. They don't have to accept it, but they'll be offered it.
Pure assumptions
It is luddite thinking because you are just "concern trolling".
Yes, how dare I have concerns for people and the environment.
You don't actually care about new technology displacing jobs...
Oh really, then please rub your crystal ball and PM me the next lotto numbers since you're able to probe into things you know nothing about.
if you did you'd have an issue with Amazon and what they're doing to the retail sector.
Actually I regularly seek out local retailers of products, nice try...
You're not actually against ATMs and mobile deposit are you? That technology cost many thousands of bank teller jobs. I hope you also boycott Paypal, Zelle, Venmo, and Cashapp.
Actually I still go into the bank and don't use online only banks that regularly spam me with marketing, it's wonderful to interact with real people...
or you'd be against Uber/Lyft for cutting into the Taxi cab market.
That's a bit of a failed example since substituting one driver with another driver isn't displacing anyone is it. But interestingly when I go to places like Vegas I only use taxis, uber'lyft is a pain in the ass IMO and I'm not interested in yet another global corp tracking my movements. And when the driverless taxis show up I'll pass. If caring about privacy makes me a Luddite then guilty as charged.

or you'd be against self-service gas pumps.
Another fail, subbing one persons labor with my own labor isn't the topic here. I'm an extreme DIY kind of guy for a variety of reasons.

A lot of swings an misses there.
 
Last edited:

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
Pure assumptions
While yes they are assumptions, they're educated ones. I've only been working in the industry for like 15 years. Generally, the automakers with unions offer various packages to employees. The ones nearing retirement are offered a buyout to retire early. Union workers below a certain age will be offered relocation to other plants. Non-union workers can also apply for other internal jobs elsewhere in the company. Those who pick none of those will be severenced out. The layoff script for the union automakers is pretty set in stone. And just like every other worker in the world who gets laid off, they'll go out and find other jobs or retire, just like I did when I got laid off from my job in the energy industry right before Covid. Still, 17,000 > 8,000, so it is a net positive for the economy.
Yes, how dare I have concerns for people and the environment.
By all means, go for it. But at least be consistent about it.
Oh really, then please rub your crystal ball and PM me the next lotto numbers since you're able to probe into things you know nothing about.
Actually I still go into the bank and don't use online only banks that regularly spam me with marketing, it's wonderful to interact with real people...
Actually I regularly seek out local retailers of products, nice try...
Well you go girl! BTW, where's your screed against amazon for killing jobs then?

That's a bit of a failed example since substituting one driver with another driver isn't displacing anyone is it. But interestingly when I go to places like Vegas I only use taxis, uber'lyft is a pain in the ass IMO and I'm not interested in yet another global corp tracking my movements. And when the driverless taxis show up I'll pass. If caring about privacy makes me a Luddite then guilty as charged.
The privacy argument is a good one and I agree with you there. I don't like Uber/Lyft either because of how they treat drivers. The problem with Uber/Lyft is that they are the Walmart of transportation in that while they lower prices for the consumer, they also push earnings lower for the workers. I do like the Uber/Lyft concept for democratizing the work, but the companies have gotten too big and greedy.
Another fail, subbing one persons labor with my own labor isn't the topic here. I'm an extreme DIY kind of guy for a variety of reasons.

A lot of swings an misses there.
The theme of all of my examples is technology replacing workers. That you personally are a DIY kinda guy is irrelevant. Making a stink about a 9,200 net positive shift in employment just because you don't like the technology du jour is a strawman argument. 11,000 people are gaining jobs in the EV sector, Ford hired another 6,200 in the traditional automotive sector. That's more than double the number of jobs lost in this particular layoff, and yet some of those 8,000 will find employment elsewhere in Ford. But while you may not personally use ATMs, Uber, Walmart, or Amazon, those things still exist and have cost many times that amount of jobs not just in the US, but globally. Walmart is mostly responsible for the destruction of the Textile industry in the US. Amazon kills stores everywhere.

So being "concerned" about a net positive in jobs looks a lot like trolling when all of those other job losses haven't earned a post from you.
 

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
The theme of all of my examples is technology replacing workers.
But self serve gas isn't about technology replacing workers, it is about replacing paid labor with the free labor of the customer in exchange for a lower price. There's a difference. The technology kicked in to deal with the theft of gas at self serve stations to get the method of payment before pumping. That was the case long before there were credit card terminals at the pump. For many years I was waiting to give my cash first, then pump and then get my change. Labor still involved, my free labor. Now when a robot pumps the gas then labor is replaced by technology in this example.
That you personally are a DIY kinda guy is irrelevant.
Incorrect. Drive through Oregon and try pumping your own gas, they've got one of those laws that makes self serve gas illegal, and I end up with some dip**** who's probably some tweaker and can't even pump gas and poured gas all over the side of my car. So now I get out and watch, they don't like it but it's my car, my gas and my money and I don't want another dip**** moment. I'd rather DIY because I care about my car a lot more more than any pump jockey.

So being "concerned" about a net positive in jobs looks a lot like trolling when all of those other job losses haven't earned a post from you.
The topic here is global warming. My opinion about how online retailers have impacted local business isn't even remotely the topic here. But feel free to keep attacking your "concern troll" straw man, it's at the very least entertaining. But ultimately this whole detour is about some fake argument that I don't like new technology. New tech is all around, and it is completely reasonable to ask what impact it has, the downsides, and seek some control of how much of it I have in my own life.
 

sactown

Participant
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
94
It depends on what it is.... sometimes keeping old things in service does more harm than replacing with new. I have a 1981 car that still runs and drives fine. I don't use it much, but from a carbon perspective, if I were to be using it as a commuter car it would be better for the environment for me to replace it.
The mere existence of a 1981 car on the road is revolting to a diehard climate zealot. You're missing the mark there by using some common sense and critical thinking.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,492
This exchange shows there is no straight line to a more sustainable, less pollution world. There are always costs. They may be costs of inconvenience (sorting your trash for recyclables), or they may be costs in jobs that are no longer needed. The question then becomes, is trying to achieve a cleaner, more sustainable world worth the cost?
 

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
734
The mere existence of a 1981 car on the road is revolting to a diehard climate zealot. You're missing the mark there by using some common sense and critical thinking.
To the Zealot, yes, but I have a new job opportunity that I'm in the running for that would substantially increase my commute. Fortunately, it would also substantially increase my pay by more than the cost of multiple EVs. Still, I'll probably just pick up a used Volt or Bolt to be my commuter scooter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FTL
Top