Global warming ‘isn’t the great threat we were told’

sactown

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This is a failure of Texas government and has little to do with Tesla. Texas is also asking people to keep their AC at 85.

Texas is a case study on why letting “The Market” handle essential utilities with minimal regulation is a bad thing.
Never said it was Teslas fault. The point is simple, there isn’t enough electricity for the demand required for more and more EVs and Tesla’s charging stations came up short and is trying to ration.
 

sactown

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So what is your solution? Dig up more coal instead or find a way to either produce more recyclable panels or require the panels to be recycled as is?

The premise that solar panels are done after 25 years is flat wrong. That’s just their warranty period. They’ll continue to work for another decade or two, just at lower output. That’s 35-45 years of NOT putting additional carbon in the atmosphere.

Yes it is a bit of kicking the can down the road, but it buys us time to develop a solution.
So practically speaking, the 30 year comp roof that was new when the solar panels were put in needs replacing. Do you remove and reinstall the old end of life solar system that looks like heck or install a new one that produces more power and will last as long as the roofing? A lot of people will do the latter. You can yell all you want that there’s a bit more life in that old system but it is still headed to the dump whether you like it or not. There is no more road to kick the can down, the end of the road is here and they are already piling up in the landfill.

It’s not incumbent on me to solve a problem I didn’t create and have been asking about for at least a decade. What I have done is wait to install rooftop solar until such time as my roof needs replacing which was in a few more years but now with inflation I’m getting squeezed. But when I do it will be a 50 year + type roofing product, probably standing seam steel or something similar so it will outlive the solar put over it. And I’ll finally do rainwater collecting since there’s no longer a petroleum based roof leaching junk into the water so I can more confidently use the water on our predominantly edible garden.

Speaking of coal, I wonder how much carbon based fuel will end up being burned to eventually recycle those old panels. Will be interesting to see if it is more or less expensive than digging up the raw materials. The aluminum works out well but no idea about the rest of it. Time will tell.
 

Nev_Dull

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The solar cell issue seems to be a typical government thing -- not thinking through the entire product life cycle when designing the incentive programs. It isn't really the fault with the solar cells. As for the toxic metals and such, all those are already being successfully recycled in old phones and computers. so it shouldn't be a huge deal. And, it will generate more jobs for those recycling them. Still a better outcome than putting more carbon other pollutants in the air.

Doesn't Texas have a history of electrical grid problems? Seems I've heard about them several times in the news. Again, not a problem with EVs but with a poor grid system.
 

Oldsmoboi

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Never said it was Teslas fault. The point is simple, there isn’t enough electricity for the demand required for more and more EVs and Tesla’s charging stations came up short and is trying to ration.
Texas is a unique situation. A 100% privatized grid that prioritizes profit over service quality. It has been wholly mismanaged and cant support the state in the summer or winter, or indeed anything that isn’t a cool sunny day. Because of the way the grid works there, there is no incentive for redundancy or spare capacity. There is also no interconnection with the other national grids to tap into when more power is needed. It’s caused by greed and hubris, and the situation is the making of the party in power.

Oklahoma, Alabama, Arizona, and New Mexico are just as hot but don’t have these issues.
 
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So here’s the LA Times (via MSN) talking about the photovoltaic e-waste nightmare hitting California, and soon the rest of the world. But what do I know, I’m just a conspiracy theorist spreading FUD. Denying the problem won’t make the e-waste pile in the landfill any smaller.

It's not hard to believe that governments with investments in solar power after 20+ years has no solution to saving the eco system from EOL solar panels. There are thousands of solar farms around the world with hundred of thousands reaching EOL.
One of many in California
1657892815956.png
One of many in China
1657892889705.png
 

Oldsmoboi

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Proper disposal or recycling is absolutely key, but even junked solar panels result in thousands of tons of fewer pollutants in the air, land, and water than coal or oil.

This stance on solar power is like having cancer but not wanting to operate on the tumor because it will leave scars.
 

zappaDPJ

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I know of one person in the UK who has had solar panels for a long time and actually gets paid for feeding surplus power back into the national grid. How typical that is I don't know but with the cost of power going through the roof here it sounds good to me.

Instead of spending money on these solar farms, we should be giving out grants and credits to entities and households to put solar on their roof.

This makes a lot of sense to me. People generally don't look up so they don't see panels on roofs whereas large solar farms are often considered a blot on the landscape. This is especially so in rural areas where the land could be put to better use e.g. agriculture.
 

mysiteguy

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mysiteguy

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It's not hard to believe that governments with investments in solar power after 20+ years has no solution to saving the eco system from EOL solar panels. There are thousands of solar farms around the world with hundred of thousands reaching EOL.
One of many in California
View attachment 55853
One of many in China
View attachment 55854

I assume you're smart enough to understand solar isn't the only power production method that has EOL, so you're cherry picking.
 

sactown

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This is a diversionary topic and does not make any case against the science in global warming.
Nor did I ever say it does. I'm pointing out that the solutions being pushed have serious downsides that have yet to be addressed and one of those problems is now piling up in landfills and will only be getting worse by the day.
 

mysiteguy

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Nor did I ever say it does. I'm pointing out that the solutions being pushed have serious downsides that have yet to be addressed and one of those problems is now piling up in landfills and will only be getting worse by the day.

The issue you bring up has been addressed in the scientific community and it's minor compared to the impact of global warming. Panels help buy time, and both their lifespan and efficiency have been going up with each new generation. Recently, there's been another breakthrough increasing their efficiency even further. And, the waste of these is far less than waste caused by burning hydrocarbons.

All forms of energy production have a lifespan and waste by-products. The point is to move away from carbon emitting hydrocarbon burning while buying time. Your whataboutism betrays underlying motives.
 
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The issue you bring up has been addressed in the scientific community and it's minor compared to the impact of global warming.
No proof of this.
The point is to move away from carbon emitting hydrocarbon burning while buying time.
Pointless as this leads loss of agriculture which we rely on for food, and other products which people use every day. Many jobs will be lost due to hyper 'the shy is falling' claims of climate change.
Your whataboutism betrays underlying motives.
And what are your underlying motives besides have an opportunity to abuse people with your unfounded personal accusations?
 
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Pixel Princess

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Climate Time Machine - A visual of the changes in our climate looking at four different perspectives: Sea Ice, Sea Level, Carbon Dioxide and Global Temperature.

The Global Temperate map is particularly eye opening from 1884 to 2021.

 
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FTL

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Look at this shocking diagram showing the difference between the 1976 heatwave and today. There's no comparison.

On top of that, where I live has had the hottest heatwaves ever. Standing out in it felt like a furnace, tolerable for only a short period as 40C is well above body temperature. And to think that we're gonna keep getting these and that they'll get more intense, scares me.

The evidence is now so strong that anyone who tries to deny man made global warming now is a complete fool likely suffering cognitive dissonance.

This graphic is part of an article linked to in my forum post below.

1658183849044.jpeg

 

zappaDPJ

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So today the UK experienced the hottest night and day on record, not by the usual minimal increases but by a whopping 2 deg C or there about.

I've never been a climate denier but I've always been skeptical about the debate that surrounds it. Personally I think it unlikely that any of the current initiatives aimed at reducing global warming will make any difference at all, let alone reverse it and the current mega increases in temperatures around the world seems to add a little weight to that view.

The technology of the future will either see us though of it won't but in the short term all this dabbling in carbon neutral emissions and the like is just laughable, money in the pockets of an elite few. The UK for example produces 1.3% of the world's CO2 emissions. We've gone bats**t crazy trying to reduce our carbon footprint and succeeded by... well the percentage is so infinitesimal we are still at 1.3% :rolleyes:

I have offspring, I'd be quite happy to be proved wrong so have at it :)
 

sactown

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The issue you bring up has been addressed in the scientific community and it's minor compared to the impact of global warming. Panels help buy time, and both their lifespan and efficiency have been going up with each new generation. Recently, there's been another breakthrough increasing their efficiency even further. And, the waste of these is far less than waste caused by burning hydrocarbons.

All forms of energy production have a lifespan and waste by-products. The point is to move away from carbon emitting hydrocarbon burning while buying time. Your whataboutism betrays underlying motives.
If it’s already been addressed then why are panels piling up in the landfills in California? Are you saying the LA Times is wrong in their reporting?

I understand there are improvements in photovoltaics, but there’s 30 years worth of installs starting to be dumped as they get replaced. Help me understand why you seem so willing to dismiss this problem? Do you think it simply doesn’t matter?
 

sactown

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I was a kid when this was the thing that had so many nervously wringing their hands. Makes me wonder what todays kids will look back on and do a collective facepalm

 

sactown

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Messages
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So today the UK experienced the hottest night and day on record, not by the usual minimal increases but by a whopping 2 deg C or there about.

I've never been a climate denier but I've always been skeptical about the debate that surrounds it. Personally I think it unlikely that any of the current initiatives aimed at reducing global warming will make any difference at all, let alone reverse it and the current mega increases in temperatures around the world seems to add a little weight to that view.

The technology of the future will either see us though of it won't but in the short term all this dabbling in carbon neutral emissions and the like is just laughable, money in the pockets of an elite few. The UK for example produces 1.3% of the world's CO2 emissions. We've gone bats**t crazy trying to reduce our carbon footprint and succeeded by... well the percentage is so infinitesimal we are still at 1.3% :rolleyes:

I have offspring, I'd be quite happy to be proved wrong so have at it :)
In the world of climate zealotry daring to be skeptical of any of the official narrative pretty much makes you a denier. Here I dare to mention problems with the so called sustainable energy solutions or point out the historic inconsistencies from the scientific community and the predictable retort is the name calling trope of being a flat earther while still ignoring the problems.

As for current temps in the UK, I’ll say what was regularly said about record colds of recent winters like 2021… one record temp doesn’t define a trend. https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/07/spain-records-coldest-ever-temperature-at-35-8-c

Here in my part of Cali it was 106°F a few days ago and it’s typical to get some 110°+ days so we’re used to it (record high is about 115° almost 100 years ago). But I understand other places are ill equipped for dealing with some hotter days which is the immediate human crisis, and it makes me wonder if this was all so predictable for decades then why haven’t people been getting more prepared for dealing with some extremes?

Attached is a temp read from the roof of my car a few years ago on a hot summer day. Been dealing with this kind of heat for decades so it doesn’t much phase me. BTW that’s about 84°C per the online conversion tool, made for a toasty drive.
 

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