Free Speech Hosts? .. or at least one with a little backbone

[LostAddmin]

I'm big on free speech and I like to run my forums that way as well. I don't feel its my right, or job, to tell my members, you or Anybody what they can/can't believe in. I 1000% don't believe you should be silenced for discussing your thoughts. I have a bitter Karen out there that stalks my forums and looks for things they don't believe in or discussions that hurt their feelings, puts lists together and sends it to my host. They've obviously been doing this awhile or, more likely, is part of another forum and knows how to be annoying. Getting notices from the hosting companies "legal team" (not actually bar certified lawyers .. per them) to remove the content and then having to prove, over and over, that it's not actual threats or hate speech ... is getting old.

I need a host, preferably in the US, with a spine .... anybody have one they recommend?

 

[Nev_Dull]

I don't think you're going to have much luck finding a host that won't respond when there are accusations of threats or hate speech. They have a responsibility to authorities and to their bottom line to act on such accusations.

This seems like a case of "be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it". Free speech is fine, but it can come at a cost. Perhaps you need to have a conversation with the person to find out what is upsetting them and why. Maybe you can come to some understanding about the forum content and your philosophical stance.

 

[Chris]

Can you hide forums from guests and folks with X less posts time, etc. that may cause those that has the questionable material in?

 

[LostAddmin]

I don't think you're going to have much luck finding a host that won't respond when there are accusations of threats or hate speech. They have a responsibility to authorities and to their bottom line to act on such accusations.

This seems like a case of "be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it". Free speech is fine, but it can come at a cost. Perhaps you need to have a conversation with the person to find out what is upsetting them and why. Maybe you can come to some understanding about the forum content and your philosophical stance.

There is no having a conversation, this person is bitter at the success of the site.

Can you hide forums from guests and folks with X less posts time, etc. that may cause those that has the questionable material in?

I could ... but why should I have to? It's not going to stop them from creating a new account from a new IP and looking around again... this person has a vendetta and is hammering away

 

[Pete]

Ironically you'd probably do better in the EU for hosting than the US because there are generally stronger legal protectors over here against such things.

 

[cornnfedd]

Have sent you a PM

 

[LostAddmin]

I just want a host that points to Section 230 and says "not our problem, go to them" so they come directly to me vs them shutting down the site when I'm AFK.

Has anybody hosted with https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net? I know the site looks simple, but as a dev with zero design skills, I fell like thats what I'd expect to see from a sys admin run business.

 

[DigNap15]

Me Too
I have sent you a pm

 

[Joeychgo]

I just want a host that points to Section 230 and says "not our problem, go to them" so they come directly to me vs them shutting down the site when I'm AFK.

There are limits to Section 230’s liability shield. Starting with the Roommates.com (2008) decision, courts have identified some cases in which Section 230 does not allow online services to avoid liability.

Examples of such cases have involved online services that were found to have induced or encouraged development of illegal content; failed to warn users about illegal activity; breached a contract; or failed to act in good faith.




Let me just play a little devil's advocate...

Now, imagine you are a host.
Several members of a forum that is your customer are providing false political information in an attempt to get others onboard to riot at a demonstration. Others warn you, as the host, that this is occurring and you do nothing. The riot happens, there is much property damage, people are injured and even killed.

The victims of the mahem learn that, as the host, you were warned this was being planned and did nothing. Take a guess who the attorneys will be looking to for damages.... Even if you are sued and win, it may cost you hundreds of thousands in attorney's fees or more.

If you are the host, is the risk worth it for someone who pays a few bucks a month for server space?

 

[DigNap15]

There are limits to Section 230’s liability shield. Starting with the Roommates.com (2008) decision, courts have identified some cases in which Section 230 does not allow online services to avoid liability.

Examples of such cases have involved online services that were found to have induced or encouraged development of illegal content; failed to warn users about illegal activity; breached a contract; or failed to act in good faith.




Let me just play a little devil's advocate...

Now, imagine you are a host.
Several members of a forum that is your customer are providing false political information in an attempt to get others onboard to riot at a demonstration. Others warn you, as the host, that this is occurring and you do nothing. The riot happens, there is much property damage, people are injured and even killed.

The victims of the mahem learn that, as the host, you were warned this was being planned and did nothing. Take a guess who the attorneys will be looking to for damages.... Even if you are sued and win, it may cost you hundreds of thousands in attorney's fees or more.

If you are the host, is the risk worth it for someone who pays a few bucks a month for server space?

I know what you are getting at with your devils advocate situation.
But it just goes to show that the USA is fast becoming a police state, where everyone is scared to do or say anything.
I'm just reading George Orwells 1984 and he talks about people "disappearing"
He write that in 1944 and now look what happens in China if you speak out!

The phone conpanies do not get sued if their users conduct drug deals on them
Webhosts should be treated the same'

 

[John H20]

I'm big on free speech and I like to run my forums that way as well. I don't feel its my right, or job, to tell my members, you or Anybody what they can/can't believe in. I 1000% don't believe you should be silenced for discussing your thoughts. I have a bitter Karen out there that stalks my forums and looks for things they don't believe in or discussions that hurt their feelings, puts lists together and sends it to my host. They've obviously been doing this awhile or, more likely, is part of another forum and knows how to be annoying. Getting notices from the hosting companies "legal team" (not actually bar certified lawyers .. per them) to remove the content and then having to prove, over and over, that it's not actual threats or hate speech ... is getting old.

I need a host, preferably in the US, with a spine .... anybody have one they recommend?

Just noticed this. I'm surprised you don't know the answer already. You need to look here for that:

Epik.com

Just do a little search and you'll see what I mean, and don't fall for any of the lies and smears. And no - I'm no right winger, conservative or Republican. Not a liberal or Democrat either.

I just went into the whole issue of free speech and censorship in this thread over here:

XenForo Cloud Beta (now with add-on support)

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www.theadminzone.com

 

[Pete]

Ah so you’re a libertarian, a believer in “but my freedoms” even more than the right-wingers. And somehow even more disillusioned by its lack of reality or application in the real world.

Bottom line: if you use someone else’s services you are bound by their terms of service. No ifs or buts, that’s a given, and if you don’t like the terms of service, don’t use that service. No one owes you a service, no one owes you a platform and inevitably those who complain about their freedoms being restricted in this manner are the ones who want the right to say what they want and not extend the same freedoms they long for to others who have a contrary opinion. The hypocrisy on show never fails to amuse me (because the right of a community to have its own boundaries is a freedom they have. A forum is the owner’s house, they’re not obliged to give you anything and if their rules are “overly censorious” that’s their freedom to exert.)

Even more bottom line: it doesn’t matter how far down you go, at some point you have to connect to everyone else’s infrastructure. Even if you bring your own datacentre and servers to the party, you still have to have an internet connection that is not obliged to connect you. Hell, even if you’re an ISP, there is no *obligation* for other ISPs to allow connections from you.

 

[R0binHood]

Just noticed this. I'm surprised you don't know the answer already. You need to look here for that:

Epik.com

They were hacked last month and a large amount of sensitive information leaked.

Epik data breach impacts 15 million users, including non-customers

Scraped WHOIS data of NON-Epik customers also exposed in the 180 GB leak.

arstechnica.com

Web host Epik was warned of a critical security flaw weeks before it was hacked | TechCrunch

Hackers claim to have dumped gigabytes of data from the web host's servers.

techcrunch.com

 

[Nev_Dull]

There is no having a conversation, this person is bitter at the success of the site.

Well then, I guess that's something you'll have to live with. Free speech can be a double-edged sword. You can't really be a free speech advocate and deny that person their right to voice their opinion on your forum or in email to your host.

 

[DigNap15]

Well then, I guess that's something you'll have to live with. Free speech can be a double-edged sword. You can't really be a free speech advocate and deny that person their right to voice their opinion on your forum or in email to your host.

Sure voice their opinion on your forum
But I think emailing one's web host is a bit below the belt.
That is obviously trying to get them shutdown

 

[mysiteguy]

Sure voice their opinion on your forum
But I think emailing ones web host is a bit below the belt.
That is obvioulsy trying to get them shutdown

If I were a betting man, my money would be on the person doing the reporting to the host probably didn't start it until after the supposed free speech advocate squashed their speech.

 

[John H20]

They were hacked last month and a large amount of sensitive information leaked.

Epik data breach impacts 15 million users, including non-customers

Scraped WHOIS data of NON-Epik customers also exposed in the 180 GB leak.

arstechnica.com

Web host Epik was warned of a critical security flaw weeks before it was hacked | TechCrunch

Hackers claim to have dumped gigabytes of data from the web host's servers.

techcrunch.com

Even GoDaddy was hacked a while ago. Yahoo had a billion-level hack not all that long ago. And I'm sure there are other big names I'm missing. No doubt others that were able to keep it under wraps, maybe even paid extortion fees to do that too. So what? Hacking happens, and this one was obviously an attack in part designed to bring about this very result - people like you effectively discouraging people away from them.

Despite being recent, the Epik hack is old news already. They have made and implemented great changes. One can expect them to be stronger than ever now. They also received tens of millions of dollars from a billionaire investor, one who happens to support free speech.

Of course, if it was more than just private citizens involved, a very real possiblity these days unfortunately, then who knows? God certainly knows.

Anyone seeking the kind of service provider OP has asked about here who allows the news of this recent attack-hack to dissuade them is making a big mistake, and playing right into the hands of those who hate free speech and hate how Epik stands for lawful free speech for all on all "sides of the aisle" and the rule of genuine law and proper process.

There is no bigger proponent of lawful free speech online for a business of its kind than Epik, and that's exactly why they were attacked recently - prior to all the new work they've done to harden and protect against that now.

So LostAddmin, don't let this news have its desired effect on people like you.

 

[Pete]

Stands for genuine law, eh? Please enlighten me why they have a large number of email addresses of people who aren’t their clients and thus there is no reason for Epik to have them.

 

[John H20]

Stands for genuine law, eh? Please enlighten me why they have a large number of email addresses of people who aren’t their clients and thus there is no reason for Epik to have them.

What an absurd question. Unredacted whois data is public and free to use for all kinds of legitimate purposes. I have my own scattered collection of whois data in various forms and files over the years myself. Pretty sure they did something new about that anyway, though.

 

[DigNap15]

Any TAZ members who say its up to the webhosts etc to decide who they let use their service etc.....are probably those with a specialised forum eg cars, or gaming etc. You have no worries about ever being de-platformed.
Those of us who have general or politics orientated forums run a very grave risk of being de-platformed by an over zealous DNS server or webhost if they get complaints and decide to enforce their rules about content etc.
This is even more so if your forum is aimed at free speech or a specialised subject eg Climate Change or Covid.