Sophos

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Most of you are probably aware of the EU Copyright Directive also known as Directive on Copyright in the Digital Single Market.

Some of you already discussed the topic subjectively and objectively here

It would be useful if on this thread we abstain from subjective opinions and begin formulating step by step preliminary guidelines of how to implement the directive effectively into your forums.

At the moment, the final version of directive is unclear, so we would have to wait for the Trilogue discussions to conclude in the following months.

What is certain is that in the following years it will happen in one form or another, because the momentum it has gathered it cannot possibly be completely discarded. With that in mind, in a worse case scenario there are 2 possible outcomes:

1. We conform and we implement copyright filters and strict posting guidelines into our forums.

2. We do not conform and we migrate our domains outside the EU.

Note: This thread concerns primarily EU domains.
 
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we_are_borg

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Option 2 is not something you can do to bypass the law. The server is of no concern in this but where the owner is living. Meaning if you live same with everything else.

Option 3 Paul gave i no option to Copyright issues are serious its the only law (and tax laws) where as defended you need to prove your innocence.
 

sanction9

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We can't ignore it for the same reason we couldn't ignore the GDPR.
Have to say that I've personally pretty much ignored the GDPR. So far the biggest outcome I've seen from it is a bunch of disgruntled former site members getting their petty revenge by sending threatening emails and letters that they're going to sic their lawyers on site owners. Although it might genuinely help some people, I don't see it being, on the whole, the great force for good in the world that some people envisioned it as. But that's just me.

As for this newest push to incorporate the internet.... Obviously bad news for any kind of content aggregators. Although it obviously won't be practical for most people to do so, one of the consequences I see from it is a lot more sites going fully or pseudo private or pay only, to build some walls between themselves and the gazillion copyright trolls, both human and automated, constantly searching for new targets to squeeze some money from.
 
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we_are_borg

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Well the first fines where done a few weeks ago. We expected that fines where going to be tailored to what the owner could carry so no fines in the millions yet. Also people who say there going to their lawyers are not yet so smart that they can turn website in to the local authorities like ICO for UK or AP for Netherlands. In the Netherlands between 25th of May till November first 7000 complaints where received and are under investigation.
 

sanction9

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It remains to seen how much those complaints will grow over time. Won't be surprised if it turns into yet another big sprawling bureaucratic mess and enforcement groups like the ICO and AP will be motivated to collect a lot of fines just to fund themselves.
 

zappaDPJ

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The ICO has certainly been making hay while the sun shines, issuing hundreds of fines already, many to organisations seemingly unaware of the annual data protection fee they are required to pay.
 

Sophos

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Paul M, sanction9 and Numbvox, don't get offended but this thread is about how to implement the upcoming EU Copyright Directive.
Place yourselves in the position of a guest or new member (such as myself), would you like to read a thread which isn't helpful?

sanction9, I imagine you've made your forum GDPR compliant and you have Privacy Policy, Terms and Conditions, Forum Rules and/or Posting Guidelines and you also moderate your forum efficiently, so on what grounds former members are threatening you?
 

sanction9

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Paul M, sanction9 and Numbvox, don't get offended but this thread is about how to implement the upcoming EU Copyright Directive.
Place yourselves in the position of a guest or new member (such as myself), would you like to read a thread which isn't helpful?

sanction9, I imagine you've made your forum GDPR compliant and you have Privacy Policy, Terms and Conditions, Forum Rules and/or Posting Guidelines and you also moderate your forum efficiently, so on what grounds former members are threatening you?
Actually, no, I never bothered with the GDPR specifically, despite many of my members being from the EU - well, most of those are from the UK, so I guess soon to not be part of the EU - and no one has ever mentioned it. I really don't care. If I were running a commercial site it might be different, but I don't. And no, as might be apparent by my saying that no one ever mentioned it, I've never personally been threatened in any way. (But lol, maybe if I'd gone out of my way to make sure everyone was aware they could threaten me, one or two of them would have.) I was just referencing the most common thing I hear/read from others in regards to the GDPR, which is site owners and admins citing such experiences. I don't see a lot of stories from people recounting how they were being made to suffer intolerably because of their info being publicly available and how the GDPR saved them. And maybe I'm cynical, but I doubt those latter kinds of stories will ever outnumber the former.

As for the EU Copyright Directive, I personally hope that as many people as possible oppose it in any way they can, whether that means moving servers or domains out of the EU, moving businesses out of the EU, or walling off content from EU countries. How many people and companies I expect to actually do such things is a whole other matter, but I'll just say that I do NOT like what I see as the European Parliament basically pushing to become some kind of de facto regime controlling the WORLD wide internet. Maybe the rest of the world walling off enough content from their countries and pissing off enough of their own people as a result is the only thing that will work to get them to back off. But in the end we'll probably all just have to adjust however we can, and most of us will likely suffer as a result. For every one person who lauds the new laws as the best thing since sliced bread, maybe because no will share their crappy music any more, there will be 100,000 people wondering what happened to most of their favorite content providers on Youtube. Well, that's the worst case scenario. Best case: things go on pretty much as they always have and most of us don't notice much of a difference on a day to day basis. But I'm going to expect the worst to minimize my disappointment. :)
 
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Paul M

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Paul M, sanction9 and Numbvox, don't get offended but this thread is about how to implement the upcoming EU Copyright Directive.
Place yourselves in the position of a guest or new member (such as myself), would you like to read a thread which isn't helpful?
Dont be offended when I keep posting, this is a forum, all views are welcome, not ones you personally approve of.

This (like GDPR) is aimed at big corporate websites and companies, not insignificant little private forums.
 

we_are_borg

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This (like GDPR) is aimed at big corporate websites and companies, not insignificant little private forums.

It's not only for large companies the 7000 complaints made in the Netherlands alone needs to be investigated and its small websites to big companies. First is to educate people so fines is only going to be done when companies or websites do really stupid stuff like plain text passwords (whats happened all ready fine was based on what the person could pay). So if some one made a complaint for your site as example ICO will investigate and take action if needed. That's why you'll need to follow the rules if they see you followed the rules but lack knowledge they will not fine straight away but try to help to make it so t follow the rules. If your defense is the law is for big companies well that ignored on your part and most likely you will be fined.

In a few countries they fined all ready Hungary and Germany for example and it was small companies.
 

zappaDPJ

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For sure but as a professional musician and songwriter robbed of royalties for 40 years these regulation do have some (minimal) virtue. That said, I'm slightly surprised at some of the people who have endorsed them as they currently stand.
 

mysiteguy

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For sure but as a professional musician and songwriter robbed of royalties for 40 years these regulation do have some (minimal) virtue. That said, I'm slightly surprised at some of the people who have endorsed them as they currently stand.

Question, how were you robbed of royalties pre-Internet?
 

User37935

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Yes if this is going to be law then where in trouble.

I thought I was safe as nowhere near the $10 million threshold but then saw the other criteria - being online for 3 years or more.

This would pretty much shut Facebook down given that most of the stuff posted aside from personal photos is someone else's copyright.

It would even affect RSS news feed into forums.
 

zappaDPJ

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Question, how were you robbed of royalties pre-Internet?

Claims by the record company that advances and expenses had never been recovered from sales. Claims by the same company that royalties/earnings had in fact been paid. They had, but not to me. No income earned from re-released material or tracks on compilations. Questionable amounts collected and paid by the BMI for radio airplay etc.

It was common practice for musicians to be robbed blind by their record companies and managers during the 70s and 80s and probably many years before that. What happened to the band Badfinger typifies the kind of things that what went on.
 

we_are_borg

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I thought I was safe as nowhere near the $10 million threshold but then saw the other criteria - being online for 3 years or more.

This would pretty much shut Facebook down given that most of the stuff posted aside from personal photos is someone else's copyright.

It would even affect RSS news feed into forums.

The issue is that companies need to take direct action when copyrighted material is uploaded.

Under the final text, any online community, platform or service that has existed for three or more years, or is making €10,000,001/year or more, is responsible for ensuring that no user ever posts anything that infringes copyright, even momentarily. This is impossible, and the closest any service can come to it is spending hundreds of millions of euros to develop automated copyright filters. Those filters will subject all communications of every European to interception and arbitrary censorship if a black-box algorithm decides their text, pictures, sounds or videos are a match for a known copyrighted work. They are a gift to fraudsters and criminals, to say nothing of censors, both government and private.

As you see its going to be a disaster.
 

feldon30

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Claims by the record company that advances and expenses had never been recovered from sales. Claims by the same company that royalties/earnings had in fact been paid. They had, but not to me. No income earned from re-released material or tracks on compilations. Questionable amounts collected and paid by the BMI for radio airplay etc.

It was common practice for musicians to be robbed blind by their record companies and managers during the 70s and 80s and probably many years before that. What happened to the band Badfinger typifies the kind of things that what went on.
I wish this law (or any other law) would address this, but we both know it won't. :( Record labels are driving this and record labels will profit. Artists won't see a penny more.
 
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