Electric Grids and the Net

truthingtotruth

Aspirant
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
309
Do any of you envision the idea that the Net could become separate from present day electric grids?

Thank you for your thoughts.
 

Pete

Flavours of Forums Forever
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,704
If it did, how it would it be powered?
 

truthingtotruth

Aspirant
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
309
Well, that is one reason I ask the question - - - to have some sharp minds around here help us figure that out.

BUT I also have a certain amount of faith in technology that certain methods of generating electricity may eventually fall into the hands of those individuals/households/non-big-business that are using it, so they, on Earth, can actually remove themselves from a standard commercial electric grid and be self sufficient in that field. But I suspect we are looking a bit into the future on that idea.

Oh yes, and I also think technology will allow us to have equipment such like we use now, but that requires less power to run it and still allow us the data output we need.

Obviously, I am putting a lot of faith in the advancement of technology. I think there are even at present some households that do, in fact, generate their own electricity using those thingies up on their roofs, but possibly not quite enough, yet, to make them completely independent of the commercial suppliers of electricity..

And I sure would appreciate opinions as to how far off the mark I might be. Or other ideas that any of y'all might have.
 

Pete

Flavours of Forums Forever
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,704
There’s already households with solar or other local power generation that sell it back to the grid. The problem is that decentralised power generation isn’t really that viable at scale.

The problem starts with the fact that these things aren’t entirely self-sufficient already, so whatever shortfall exusts still has to be met by the grid. But beyond that there is the production of parts, maintenance etc.

Plus the fact that some of the best sources of power generation (hydroelectric, tidal, wind farms) are too costly to set up and maintained in sufficient scale to be useful by an individual or a small co-operative.
 

we_are_borg

Administrator
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
5,801
You’re talking about power through the air. Nicola Tesla was experimenting with this but his notes where not complete he was a genius. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home you have a scene where Earth HQ requested more power from satellites in orbit. This was taken from Tesla they did the research.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,519
Because the internet is just a lot of servers spread around the globe (or across the flat plane, if you're that way minded) they are connected to the various electrical grids of those nations. At some point, perhaps if fusion energy is realized, there may be a single, planetary electrical grid system. Even so, computers will still need electricity and there has to be some sort of system or grid in place to provide it.
 

LeadCrow

Apocalypse Admin
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
6,774
It wouldnt really matter, because the devices that consume internet content need electricity themselves, and special chokepoints will consume ressources unrestricted.

Consumer devices will increasingly consume solar power, and there will be a more or less foreceful return to mainframes that handle the bulk of everyone's processing while users access 'the cloud' from underpowered cheap devices.
 

Pete

Flavours of Forums Forever
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,704
there will be a more or less foreceful return to mainframes that handle the bulk of everyone's processing while users access 'the cloud' from underpowered cheap devices

This is already underway, see Chromebooks. What is decentralised must be centralised, what is centralised must be decentralised; thus it has ever been.

Though this doesn't really bode well for hobbyists so much because they lack the resources to be any of the bigger providers. Part of the original computing revolution was the advent of the affordable home devices that had enough computing power to be interesting.

I suspect we'll see a partial move back towards thin clients like that - but there's a revolution to come out of the software industry. For the last decade or more we've become hyperfocused on doing things quickly and empowering people with low-code or no-code solutions, but these aren't efficient, neither are the apps built on some of these big chunky frameworks (React and friends may be developer friendly but they're not lightweight at all)

I think then that we'll also see a push towards efficient engineering in a way we haven't for a while, that building lightweight is advantageous in a way building fast isn't. But all the time it's cheaper to throw more hardware at a problem, that's what we'll keep doing.
 

truthingtotruth

Aspirant
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
309
I sure do appreciate the thoughts posted so far, everybody.

I'll confess that I have also been leaving out one key point in many of my posts that I suppose I leave out because it usually causes folks to "walk" away. You know, that --- "Oh my God, this guy is nuts!" --- and folks just ignore everything I ask after that.

The point of many of my questions is that I wish to see the Net become an independent entity at some future date. Many of my questions relate to that one thought.

Thus the need to be able to control the electrical grid that runs the Net.

How to achieve that? Well, first the questions have to be asked. The discussions ensue and possibly what at first looks like a completely nutty idea starts to look a tad bit less nuts as the answers start to appear because agreement starts to set in on key points of a given topic.

This particular topic is how to control the electrical power ourselves, if we were to be the ones actually controlling the Net.

Is it nuts to be thinking about controlling the Net? Yep, it probably is. But you can bet your sweet bippy that there are some folks with lots of money that are also giving the idea serious thought. But they are not asking in public venues. I am.

As I wrote in that other thread, why can't we start here? ___ Well, I wrote it something like that.

So now the question is how many of you did I lose just now because of my confession?

But think about this, folks --- them folks with that power and money that are asking the very same questions I am aren't giving thought to it being a democratically run independent Net. They want it run more along the lines of a dictatorship. I've already written something like that elsewhere around here. If you think that is fantasy, well ...

Anyway, to get back on topic here --- if we're aiming for an independent Net then we sure have to have full control over the power that runs it, yes?

By the way, give some thought to that location where the James Web telescope is presently parked. What if some Net infrastructure were to be parked in places such like that? Not everything needs to be parked on the surface of the Earth.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,519
You are right. There are plenty of government types who would love to control the internet. We've already seen a lot of ideas and debate about it. None of their plans have worked well (I'm looking at you China) because the one thing that keeps the internet safe from that level of interference is that it isn't controlled by any particular group.

The worst thing we could possibly do to the internet is put all the infrastructure and control in the hands of any single entity, regardless of their intentions.
 

truthingtotruth

Aspirant
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
309
I sense that the Net is too powerful a tool and that somebody is going to go for it, if they have the chance. Now how to define "chance" is the biggie. But I just sense that somebody will grab it if that "chance" presents itself and the only thing is "we" get it first. By "we" I mean us common folks and we run it just like any sort of democratic institution and "we" run it forever.

Leaving the situation to "chance" is way too dangerous.
 
Top