Don't suppose anyone here has any contacts at YouTube?

[Lisa]

Basically, here's the problem I have...

My daughter met a boy (he lives about forty minutes away) late last year. It turned out (after they met) that he has/had a fairly active youtube channel. In December last year, he became a little obsessive and she cut all contact with him, after telling him she was done with him. At this point, he became aggressive, sending her numerous messages demanding she meet him, telling her she couldn't stop speaking to him because he "wasn't done with her".

She doesn't have a social media presence, but at this point she blocked him on the chat apps they used. and also blocked his phone number.

This didn't stop him as he then went through mutual friends, (even to the point of adding female friends of my daughter's that he didn't know and trying to arrange for them to meet with him, and bring my daughter with them, but not to tell her he would be there). He demanded she unblock him and threatened to turn up at her house and while she was out with friends to "force" her to unblock him. My daughter is 16. She was frightened by this so I called the police, in an attempt to relieve her fears, and asked if they could just speak to him, and request him to back away and leave her alone because she felt like he was stalking her.

We assumed it had been done as things seemed to quiet down, but much to our surprise, just after New Year he posted two videos on his youtube channel about her - spinning the story of what happened with a different light, and making derogatory comments about her, such as calling her ugly, saying she's got an eating disorder (which she hasn't) and claiming to all and sundry that he could "have her" whenever he wanted because she was in love with him (she wasn't and isn't). My daughter is very much a stay-at-home bookworm. When he first managed to persuade her to meet with him, she took a friend with her and would only meet him in crowded public places - they only actually met three or four times.

Both videos contained her name, photographs of her and video footage that she did not give him permission to use, which added to her fear and worry because she knows people in her school watch his channel. He tried to incite aggression toward my daughter by claiming her family were hararssing him and posting comments (we weren't, as the police had advised us to say nothing).

It took me over two months to get Youtube to agree that the videos needed removing and I eventually received emails confirming that they had been taken down.

They have since been put back online.

Everything was quiet until a couple of weeks ago, when things appear to have started up again. My daughter has had no contact with this guy in all this time. But now he's made another two videos, making claims that aren't true and his comments section is full of some guy claiming he knows my daughter (he doesn't) and making the situation worse. I firmly believe that this is one of several sock puppet accounts used to generate views, and is highly likely either himself or his friend who helps run the channel.

In Youtube's Harrassment and Cyberbullying policy, it specifically states not to post:-

• Content that is deliberately posted in order to humiliate someone
• Content that makes hurtful and negative personal comments/videos about another person
• Content that incites others to harass or threaten individuals on or off YouTube

And yet all the videos this guy is posting covers ALL of the above.

Youtube doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything about this, and my daughter has reached the point where she doesn't even want to leave the house. It's making her sick and affecting her school work and I am very concerned for her mental health because she is not a confrontational person and is also a very private person and is sick to the stomach of hearing people talk about her like they know her.

She did go against my advice and reply a couple of times recently when the sock puppet account was trying to claim she had asked him to post on her behalf, to refute his claims and that seems to have amped up the abuse.

She has now blocked his channel, and doesn't have notifications switched on so she can't read any further comments that have been made, but surely there is more that can be done because, once again, he is trying to incite hatred against her and making more false claims and she's terrified this could spill over into the real world as he only lives a fifteen minute train ride away.

I am sick of reporting videos and his channel and getting nowhere. I need to speak to an actual person.

The police are a waste of time as, according to the officer we spoke to, they "don't police youtube".

 

[Steve]

The police are a waste of time as, according to the officer we spoke to, they "don't police youtube

That's a shame because what you're describing is breaking laws and is punishable.

Try a personal appearance at the police station and demand it be looked into for fear of it leading to physical violence.

https://peoplesafe.co.uk/advice/stalking-harassment/

 

[R0binHood]

The police don't police youtube, but surely if he's harrasing her in real life and trying to find her in person through the mutual friends that might be grounds to get some kind of restraining order against him?

https://www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence

Are the videos threatening? Could they be considered a hate crime? https://www.cps.gov.uk/hate-crime

I would get as much evidence as possible and go down to your local police station to speak to someone in person to explain the situation.

 

[Lisa]

That's a shame because what you're describing is breaking laws and is punishable.

Try a personal appearance at the police station and demand it be looked into for fear of it leading to physical violence.

https://peoplesafe.co.uk/advice/stalking-harassment/

I actually had a face-to-face meeting with a police officer to begin with. When the videos were uploaded they said they could ask him to take them down, but they don't police youtube and the detective even said (and you have no idea how much I had to control myself) "It's not like he's actually touching her, is it?"

 

[Lisa]

The police don't police youtube, but surely if he's harrasing her in real life and trying to find her in person through the mutual friends that might be grounds to get some kind of restraining order against him?

https://www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence

Are the videos threatening? Could they be considered a hate crime? https://www.cps.gov.uk/hate-crime

I would get as much evidence as possible and go down to your local police station to speak to someone in person to explain the situation.

I handed over screenshots of text conversations between her and him, him and her friends (who sent the screenshots to her), links to the videos, screenshots of the comments.

They aren't interested because he's not physically touching her.

 

[Lisa]

Are the videos threatening? Could they be considered a hate crime? https://www.cps.gov.uk/hate-crime

No, because he's very very careful in how he phrases things. He lets the comments section do the threatening.

His channel isn't huge, but it's big enough with 19K subs. His whole channel is nasty, to be honest. And that's not even bringing up the things we're aware of that he's done to his ex-girlfriend or the fact he was investigated by his school for saying "you can't rape a girl, because even when they say no they still want it." That's insight into what he's like.

 

[R0binHood]

Weirdly, I've just been listening to episode 145 "Louder" of the Reply All podcast, it's about harrasment on YouTube, it may be of interest to you.

At the 24 min mark there's a quote from a YouTube rep explains their harasment policy and covers "videos where the primary purpose of the video is to harass, insult, bully another person or to incite harasment of that person", so you might be able to get the pulled under that policy.

You could try and get more people to report the video. The more people that report it, the greater the chance someone may actually look at it.

 

[Lisa]

At the 24 min mark there's a quote from a YouTube rep explains their harasment policy and covers "videos where the primary purpose of the video is to harass, insult, bully another person or to incite harasment of that person", so you might be able to get the pulled under that policy.

This is why I need a direct contact. Using the report function and explaining through that doesn't seem to be achieving anything.

 

[Nev_Dull]

I think R0binHood has the right idea. You need to get more voices behind it.

There was a recent example with some videos by the NIFB (New Independent Fundamentalist Baptist) group. They posted a number of videos promoting their conference called "Make America Straight Again", in which they advocated and promoted killing all members of the LGBTQIA+ community. Even though the videos clearly violated YouTube's policies, they seemed to be quite content to do nothing, until a group of other YouTubers got together, with their subscribers, to report the videos. Only then did YouTube take them down.

 

[Lisa]

I think R0binHood has the right idea. You need to get more voices behind it.

There was a recent example with some videos by the NIFB (New Independent Fundamentalist Baptist) group. They posted a number of videos promoting their conference called "Make America Straight Again", in which they advocated and promoted killing all members of the LGBTQIA+ community. Even though the videos clearly violated YouTube's policies, they seemed to be quite content to do nothing, until a group of other YouTubers got together, with their subscribers, to report the videos. Only then did YouTube take them down.

Easier said than done when it's not a big thing like that.

 

[Kevin]

Easier said than done when it's not a big thing like that.

You got lots of online friends; send a few YT links out via PM and ask them to report it.

 

[Lisa]

You got lots of online friends; send a few YT links out via PM and ask them to report it.

You know me, Kev. I don't just bombard people with my ****.

 

[Kevin]

You know me, Kev. I don't just bombard people with my ****.

It's the same philosophy I take with family & friends. Which is exactly why if somebody does make such a request then it means that they really need some help with an issue and the crew is usually happy to help out.

If nothing else, having a few more YT 'reports' submitted from people who aren't associated to any of the parties referenced in the videos can't hurt and might help getting it noticed by the YT reviewers.

 

[R0binHood]

We've been looking into it, and interestingly YouTube doesn't allow the reporting of specific users for harassment unless you're the person being harassed, or you're their legal guardian.

(Note this was when trying to report a specific user after clicking through from their comments, as opposed to a certain video)

 

[Nev_Dull]

But anyone can report a video for abuse, such as bullying an individual.

Lisa you mentioned this bell-end was using your daughter's images without permission. That should give you means to submit a copyright infringement claim. And what about GDPR? Surely him posting personal information about her is a violation under that Act.

 

[Lisa]

But anyone can report a video for abuse, such as bullying an individual.

Lisa you mentioned this bell-end was using your daughter's images without permission. That should give you means to submit a copyright infringement claim. And what about GDPR? Surely him posting personal information about her is a violation under that Act.

I considered that and it caused a mild panic attack in my daughter as when you submit a copyright infringement, you have to submit your full name and address - which is then given to the person you're submitting it again. And, so far, he doesn't quite know the actual house number, just the general location (which is pretty specific in itself as there are only four roads) but still.

 

[sbjsbj]

Why don't you hire a lawyer, let him write a legal notice to youtube and to that boy and done?

This is a matter for a lawyer, not for the police.

 

[Lisa]

Why don't you hire a lawyer, let him write a legal notice to youtube and to that boy and done?

Because until a week ago we thought it was over and done with and we're trying to figure out what we need to do from here.

 

[Kevin]

Because until a week ago we thought it was over and done with and we're trying to figure out what we need to do from here.

Looking at the YT 'Report' options, it looks like there a few different options that can be used based on your descriptions of what the person is doing.

But... if you don't want others reporting them, how old is the individual in question? If he is also a minor have you tried the 'parent-to-parent' angle of finding out if his mother knows what he's up to online?

 

[sbjsbj]

Because until a week ago we thought it was over and done with and we're trying to figure out what we need to do from here.

Figure it out? That part is the job of the lawyer. You should seek for legal advice and pressure both parties by sending them a legal notice to take down those videos because of harassment and copyright infringement (and other stuff).

If the life of your daughter turned to hell, that should have been the first thing you should have done a long time ago. There is nothing to discuss here, if the story you told us is true. Get legal advice, this is a serious matter. Bunch of people on the internet won't be able to help your daughter.