Community? Or Commercial Operation?

[truthingtotruth]

So I got in some studying of the new posts above and you folks are working very hard to explain things as you view the situation now and down the road and special needs doing in many areas y'all have covered, but there is one big thing that needs doing.

Being super crude, as I am known to do, the average Net Citizen could give a hoot about all this stuff and especially the details that need digging into. They have to be given a reason to care about any of this. It has been the same with revolution style stuff throughout the ages. The average citizen on the surface of the planet or in this Net world will simply ask: What are you on about?

They want it neatly packaged in as few words as possible.

So let me try:

Is the Internet going to promote more human freedom?

Of course, the question arises: Freedom from what? Well, freedom from tyranny, might be one idea. Freedom from economic exploitation. Other ideas?

 

[zappaDPJ]

Of course, the question arises: Freedom from what? Well, freedom from tyranny, might be one idea. Freedom from economic exploitation. Other ideas?

I'd offer a more positive view. It's not so much freedom from anything, it's more about freedom that allows anyone to communicate with a world audience, at least in theory.

 

[truthingtotruth]

My sincere apologies for now becoming confrontational, zappaDPJ.

I mean exactly what I ask -- Will the Internet help protect us from bad people? --- To be even more blunt.

All well and good to refer to better communications and all other fancy stuff, but the bottom line I want to deal with is freedom from bad people. Freedom from other bad humans. I want it basic. I want it blunt.

Truthfully, I am sick and tired of reading all sorts of 50-page documents written by all them fancy uni folks that outline all sorts of freedom this and freedom that, when the bottom line is can it help us be free from bad people. And especially bad people with too much power. I want it to be a yes-no question. If better communications can help us be free from bad people, then that is the 'Yes.' answer. Sometimes it is best to ask the: Yes-No / Right-Wrong / Good-Bad / Up-Down style questions. Better communications ain't worth a darn if it takes 50 pages to answer a simple question.

Again, I am very sorry.

 

[Pete]

To answer your question: is the internet going to promote more freedom? No.

The internet, like “the market” is an abstract concept made up of many many real world things. Most importantly “the internet” has no single collective agency. It’s like asking “will roads promote more freedom?” - roads have no agency, they are tools that exist to be used by those who wish to take that *potential of freedom* to do something.

A better question: can the internet promote more freedom? Answer: yes. 40 years ago your ability to talk to other human beings electronically was mostly limited to connecting to a university or research hub, or a BBS of old. You could reach others, in their tens or maybe hundreds. But the internet today? I could theoretically reach millions (or more) people. This is the internet *enabling* more freedom to communicate but it isn’t promoting it.

The problem as I see it is the fact so many want to monetise everything. It’s not about what can be achieved with a good idea and hard work, its about how much money you can make doing it. This is not to say that everything paid is bad, but that there’s no balance, not enough people doing things just because they want to.

 

[dvsDave]

Mine is a malbenevolent dictatorship.

That's what my subjects community members call me! The Benevolent Dictator.

 

[truthingtotruth]

Roads for cars, trucks, bicycles, and my feet are built on, above, and under the Earth. Brick-and-mortar; tap-tap roads.

Digital roads are built on the Internet.

To me, the Earth and the Internet are two separate worlds, both inhabited by humans, and some kinds of "machines" and I do not view the Internet as some sort of road. It is a world that is very new and not at all understood, yet. Not understood for it's potential.

Of course, you would counter that all sorts of brick-and-mortar structures are what the Internet is built upon, but that is also changing and where those changes lead us is an interesting world of surmising.

If we humans survive for another 100 or so years then we might even see the Internet survive the destruction of Earth. Of course, there could be a big problem for any humans on the Earth.

Could be after such a horrible event that along comes another life entity from elsewhere and they find our Internet intact and with a lot of information for that other life entity to study.

Obviously, I do not view the Internet as some fancy new road system.

 

[Pete]

I didn’t say the internet was roads. I have never been a subscriber to the ”information superhighway” metaphor. I was trying to explain that you’re giving something inanimate credit for something it literally isn’t.

But if you want bricks and mortar, literally everything about the internet is ultimately bricks and mortar, the internet is all served by physical servers somewhere, with cables plugging them into the nearest connection hub and there are usually dozens of intermediate connections between you and any given internet server, of which virtually all (if not all) of these are in bricks and mortar, very much in the physical.

You speak of the internet as if it is alive, a single amorphous thing. It is not alive. It has no inherent agency or collective decision making capacity.

 

[truthingtotruth]

I see I erred on that one about "roads" - - - forgive my failings; they are numerous.

As for that idea of the Net itself being a form of life, I'm not on that style of thinking here.

As for brick-and-mortar and the Net, it isn't going to be so after they get all that is needed launched into orbit and have created machinery that will last for decades at a shot and possibly fix themselves. The infrastructure of the Net has to end up above us. Way-way too many good solid reasons for that to happen, meaning money. It will save money and also not be prone to breakdowns like that recent cable that broke when the volcano went into "I-Am-Awesome" mode and sent waves as far as the west coast of the North American continent, just to ID one area. And the successful deployment of the large protection shield on the James Webb telescope now points the way to protective shields for equipment in orbit.

But the thing is, we are discussing communities. There is the life. It is the communities just like this one that drive my thinking that there is something more than retail sales that will eventually govern the Net. Well, let us hope it is something more than commercial interests that drive the Net, or we are all in very big trouble.

Folks we have never seen such a propaganda machine as this Net is. Pure and simple, it is dangerous. The average human is already being manipulated by Big Tech through the use of this Net. How about the BS about browsers. Who knows how much the change in the browser is so that adverts are easier to load? What is the actual percentage of a new code for a new browser that is for economic gain as compared to actual security? Security fixes that couldn't have been fixed in another way in the previous browser version. I've been looking for people who have written papers on that and those papers are almost non-existent.

And the power Big Tech has to collude and simply state we no longer allow you to use that browser. Sorry Charlie, you be ****e out of luck. You use what we say you can use or turn off your computer.

And it is true that search engine results are another area that our lawmakers really should be digging into, but they are not. Why not? Who are the biggest contributors to political campaign entities of all sorts.

And then we start down that road of politics and we are seeing more and more the power Big Tech has using their power on the Net.

It is very simple, if we do not get some sort of control over the Net, we lose in a big way. We, meaning the average Net Citizen. Actually, we're already starting to lose. But you give it one hundred years and we continue on this path, you can kiss your present-day freedoms good-bye!

 

[zappaDPJ]

I mean exactly what I ask -- Will the Internet help protect us from bad people? --- To be even more blunt.

Absolutely, if you find knowledge empowering. The fact that Russia is reportedly planning to disconnect itself from Western Internet services is a testament to that.

Obviously like any other powerful tool it can be used in a way that's detrimental to people's well being but overall I'd say it's a huge step forward in almost every conceivable way.