Censorship

Tracy Perry

Opinionated asshat
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
5,071
Right, exactly. Like I said, America itself is being destroyed by such censorship, despite our supposed recognized right of free speech.
You seem to not realize you don't have "free speech" when you are on someone else site. It's like being in a house belonging to another.
Yes, you have "free speech" but you also have to pay the cost of uttering that speech if it is unwelcome that location. Keep talking "crap" and you are liable to be forcibly ejected from that house that belongs to another.

You DON'T have any rights to utter whatever you wish in another persons "domain" and expect to not be confronted if it is outside the allowed norm for that persons "domain". You seem to have issues with separating public spaces (which you do have almost unlimited "free speech") with private spaces. You know, private spaces, those things that ARE OWNED by others and not the public at large through the government. Free speech is only guaranteed (in the US) to be protected from government intervention.
As for whether you lean right or left... your elucidations are consistent with those on the right that bemoan Twitter, FB and YouTube "censoring" certain people/views and that demand their "fweeedumz!". This little tidbit even further reinforces that view as you also hear it decried by those on the "right" here in the U.S. (I see it frequently over on the Disqus discussions for TGP, OANN and Breitbart - I hang out in many places):
The corporate censorship is being done in cooperation with, partnership with, and at the request of and sometimes even under the threat of government.
I think you conflate free speech with absolute freedom of speech. The latter you only have in your privately fully owned by you area, and even then some speech can still be illegal if overheard by others (like threatening to kill the President, a member of Congress or any other person), so even there is a "crimp" on your absolute free speech.
 
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Slavik

Participant
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
85
A Facebook friend of mine in the UK told me there is no actual right of free speech there as there (supposedly) is in the US.

 

zappaDPJ

Administrator
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
8,017
So yes, I'd say a lot more credible so far than zappaDPJ's snarky post #9, but not true merely because of being a Facebook friend.

I'm sorry if that's how you viewed my post but I can assure you, there was no intention to be snarky. I just gave an example of how far people can go in the UK to speak freely which is covered under Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998 so your friend is incorrect.

And in case you are not aware, what you have pointed out is political in nature.

I can't argue with that because I really don't have a complete picture of who is responsible for service provider censorship in the US.

Getting back on topic; you imply that Xenforo's moderation in their service forum will extend to their cloud option. I'd argue that will only happen in exceptional circumstances but far, far more likely not at all.

As forum owners we all moderate our forums even if it's only to remove spam and Xenforo has every right to do the same on their official support forum. If they did the same on the cloud offering they may not even have UK civil law on their side let alone their customers who would likely up sticks and leave. It just wouldn't make commercial sense.
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,370
I can assure you that every individual here in the UK has the right to speak freely and make a complete ass of themselves just like they do in the US. At this very moment they're even gluing themselves to the motorway/freeway in order to do so.

View attachment 55446
I support this important movement. I think someone should get over there and cover these people with fibreglass pink, or maybe spray foam. Leaving Britain uninsulated is a crime.
 

AdamD

Devotee
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,901
A Facebook friend that I've known for years now, is a married parent who seems to be a good parent to boot, operates a big and fairly successful website and business based in the UK, and who seems pretty smart and principled. So yes, I'd say a lot more credible so far than zappaDPJ's snarky post #9, but not true merely because of being a Facebook friend.
Not saying this is entirely accurate, but according to the "Democracy Index", the UK scores higher than the US in terms of civil liberties and political freedoms.
They class the UK as a "Full Democracy" and the US as a "Flawed Democracy".
Not sure why your supposedly smart friend thinks we're limited here in the UK as far as freedoms go, but from my experience, it's very much free here.
 

Paul M

Dr Pepper Addict
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
4,027
You seem to not realize you don't have "free speech" when you are on someone else site. It's like being in a house belonging to another.
Yes, you have "free speech" but you also have to pay the cost of uttering that speech if it is unwelcome that location. Keep talking "crap" and you are liable to be forcibly ejected from that house that belongs to another.
Indeed, every forum has a set of rules, terms & conditions, and if you dont follow them, its bye bye.


We added this final section of our T&Cs a very long time ago.

You have the absolute right to free speech. If you find it impossible to abide by this document, then please feel free to contact one of the many good web hosting companies out there and set up an account, create your own discussion board and exercise that right to your hearts content.
 

John H20

Aspirant
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
45
Well I just spent a lot of time and effort replying about such issues in another thread, so perhaps I'll add a bit more here later today or this week as well. Right now I need to get back to other matters, however. So long for now...
 

Gamecharmer

Aspirant
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
32
The long and short of it, John, is that freedoms granted by the government are only enforced against the government. The government can't stop you from spewing nonsense, but doing so in a private location under non-governmental oversight conditions is another story entirely.


Here's an ideal situation for you John. I've been running a forum for ages that was based around flash games. Flash has been dead for quite a while now and our traffic is almost non-existent. If I decide to take my site down as it's costing me out of pocket to keep funding, is that censorship in your eyes? I'd have effectively deleted the posts of tens of thousands of people in such a way that no one could get them back. No one would be able to read them anymore. If you don't see that as censorship, then please explain the difference.
 

Oldsmoboi

Fan
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
646
While it would be great if they backed up their claims, they are not obligated to.
Equally, if they choose not to back them up, they are not obligated to withdraw them.
However, if they dont, I suggest everyone treat them as they would any other unsubstantiated claim.

Assertions made without evidence can summarily be dismissed without evidence. </end thread>
 

Nev_Dull

Anachronism
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,370
A Facebook friend that I've known for years now, is a married parent who seems to be a good parent to boot, operates a big and fairly successful website and business based in the UK, and who seems pretty smart and principled.
That doesn't make them right, though, does it?

This is a good example of a cognitive bias. Sometimes called "the halo effect," we can choose to believe something just because it comes from someone we like. Our own brains are often the biggest censors we face, making decisions based on half-truths and emotion. That's why it's so important to put some effort into testing what we believe against actual facts.
 

thenashy

Aspirant
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
31
I've not really heard of or seen the experience described by OP.


My only concern would be that these services are usually based in a single country, and often in the middle of it, when many users fall outside that area.
 

Pete

Flavours of Forums Forever
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,588
Don’t worry, Trump is coming to the rescue with a new social network called Truth Social.
 

Joel R

Fan
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
915
To go back to the OP,
1. This has always been the difference between self-hosted and cloud.
2. There have always been limits on free speech.
3. As a forum, you are always beholden to all upstream providers.
 
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