D
Deleted member 3691
Guest
Yep!
Are you excited for IPB 4.5?
- Thread starter whitetigergrowl
- Start date
Yep!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2015
- Messages
- 191
All I am saying, and to put it simply, is that IPS is limiting your freedom of choice in being able to, for example, renew your license when YOU wish to by applying even more restrictions to do this. Limiting your choice in being able to download, review and test an addon you purchase. Limiting your choice of when you wish to install or remove till a later time and then install an addon etc.
To me it has got to a point where you have to now look at the company behind a software solution more than the software itself.
Look at the Fur industry and what about all those great perfume companies that ended up not being able to sell their very popular perfumes and beauty products when it was found out they tested their products on animals. You need to look more closely at the company providing the product than be just blind to it all because one day it will suddenly bite you.
To me it has got to a point where you have to now look at the company behind a software solution more than the software itself.
Look at the Fur industry and what about all those great perfume companies that ended up not being able to sell their very popular perfumes and beauty products when it was found out they tested their products on animals. You need to look more closely at the company providing the product than be just blind to it all because one day it will suddenly bite you.
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #83
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,450
I remember when I could identify every single file on my computer and my software came in a box. As a control freak I wasn't too happy when Microsoft started to take full control of my computer hardware and I was even less happy when I found I could no longer buy software in box.
I see this kind of control as inevitable and somewhat reluctantly I'd name it progress. To the majority it'll make total sense, a click an go solution that allows you to focus on building content. To the minority like me it's something to grumble about but sooner or later we'll all look back and wonder what the issue was unless of course we are still looking to buy our software in a box.
I see this kind of control as inevitable and somewhat reluctantly I'd name it progress. To the majority it'll make total sense, a click an go solution that allows you to focus on building content. To the minority like me it's something to grumble about but sooner or later we'll all look back and wonder what the issue was unless of course we are still looking to buy our software in a box.
D
Deleted member 3691
Guest
From click to install third party apps to clubbing baby seals in one day. What a journey we've been on. ?
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2010
- Messages
- 985
I'm a huge fan of the IPS Suite.
But...
I agree with ibaker
If I haven't renewed my license and find a awesome new iPS plugin to install that isn't on the marketplace, heck even if it is on the marketplace, then I can't install it unless I pay for the renewal of the forum product... And THEN even If I already purchased the plugin I can't install it after the fact. I don't see how that's so hard to see by everyone in here...
You have no control over installing plugins/addons unless you have an active license. Not everyone likes to keep an active license as they don't update their site on every single update.
But...
I agree with ibaker
If I haven't renewed my license and find a awesome new iPS plugin to install that isn't on the marketplace, heck even if it is on the marketplace, then I can't install it unless I pay for the renewal of the forum product... And THEN even If I already purchased the plugin I can't install it after the fact. I don't see how that's so hard to see by everyone in here...
You have no control over installing plugins/addons unless you have an active license. Not everyone likes to keep an active license as they don't update their site on every single update.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
- Messages
- 2,654
I think the concerns are completely valid & fair. I definitely see the point.
But, as someone running 4.5 beta 3 on my live site now...
Damn is it nice. So freakin' convenient. I could definitely get used to this.
But, as someone running 4.5 beta 3 on my live site now...
Damn is it nice. So freakin' convenient. I could definitely get used to this.
- Thread starter
- #87
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2006
- Messages
- 161
In time it's inevitable Xenforo goes the same path or a similar one as IPB. If anyone has been paying attention, they've been heading that route, albeit they have been incredibly slow at moving along. While they may offer a few differences, ultimately I would be incredibly surprised if Xenforo doesn't borrow more of these types of things such as the ability to add plug-ins directly from the admin cp. Especially if there is demand for it.
Still funny how VB is left out of most convos and debates. lol.
Matt has made some valid points. But he has also made it clear they are the Apple to Xenforos Android. When it comes to doing things online, while I prefer flexibility, we also know security should be of the highest priority for members and forum owners.
Are there things IPB needs to improve at? Sure. Same with Xenforo. But it all depends on who you are going after and what you are competing against. Right now forums are struggling against social media. You might see 100 new Xenforo forums pop up today, but how many of them still exist 6 months from now or generally active?
The market has room for both forum software. Xenforo isn't bad software. But it's missing a lot that force people to rely more heavily on plug-ins for features and functionality. Which I think is horrible for numerous reasons. IPB clearly has realized this and prefers more control over those plug-ins.
I see people with Android phones complaining how game wants access to your contacts or camera when it has no need for it. Most people aren't code literate. They will install a plug-in that looks cool and not realize the potential security implications from it. It might open a hole you don't want there.
Personally forums need to evolve more. I feel IPB is on a better path with that then Xenforo. Though I do agree it's spendy you also get much more.
Many forums have come and gone and IPB is still here. VB was king of the castle for awhile and they too fell. IPB is still kicking. Xenforo is the latest and greatest primarily only because of a few of the developers and the memories some of the supporters have of their work on VB. They too just a few months ago admitted they weren't as far along on things as they had liked, mainly because of offline things going on. IPB keeps moving along at a steady pace.
I've used both. They both have pluses and minuses. They both are good forums. You have run a gallery, download area or website without even using the forum with IPB. Or I can simply the forum experience and strip away everything else. Maybe Xenforo 3 will be better. Currently, it just feels like a free forum that costs money with a few extra perks. But that's just me.
Still funny how VB is left out of most convos and debates. lol.
Matt has made some valid points. But he has also made it clear they are the Apple to Xenforos Android. When it comes to doing things online, while I prefer flexibility, we also know security should be of the highest priority for members and forum owners.
Are there things IPB needs to improve at? Sure. Same with Xenforo. But it all depends on who you are going after and what you are competing against. Right now forums are struggling against social media. You might see 100 new Xenforo forums pop up today, but how many of them still exist 6 months from now or generally active?
The market has room for both forum software. Xenforo isn't bad software. But it's missing a lot that force people to rely more heavily on plug-ins for features and functionality. Which I think is horrible for numerous reasons. IPB clearly has realized this and prefers more control over those plug-ins.
I see people with Android phones complaining how game wants access to your contacts or camera when it has no need for it. Most people aren't code literate. They will install a plug-in that looks cool and not realize the potential security implications from it. It might open a hole you don't want there.
Personally forums need to evolve more. I feel IPB is on a better path with that then Xenforo. Though I do agree it's spendy you also get much more.
Many forums have come and gone and IPB is still here. VB was king of the castle for awhile and they too fell. IPB is still kicking. Xenforo is the latest and greatest primarily only because of a few of the developers and the memories some of the supporters have of their work on VB. They too just a few months ago admitted they weren't as far along on things as they had liked, mainly because of offline things going on. IPB keeps moving along at a steady pace.
I've used both. They both have pluses and minuses. They both are good forums. You have run a gallery, download area or website without even using the forum with IPB. Or I can simply the forum experience and strip away everything else. Maybe Xenforo 3 will be better. Currently, it just feels like a free forum that costs money with a few extra perks. But that's just me.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2013
- Messages
- 1,035
There's a choice in the forum world now:
1. You can go with an unregulated link directory. Total freedom, total risk.
2. You can go with a regulated marketplace. Less freedom, less risk.
That's it. You don't have to overthink it. As a forum owner, you have two very different choices in how you'd like to manage your third party ecosystem. Do you get everything you want in the way you want? No, but neither does your wife ?.
At the end of the day, IPS recognizes that the modern consumer is evolving. Modern consumers expect platforms as a service like Shopify, Etsy, Discord, Facebook Groups where all of the technology magically happens behind the scenes. You don't need to be a "webmaster" to run a successful community anymore. You need people skills, communication skills, leadership, and organizational management. You don't need three empty forums and a dozen second-hand licenses where you install, review, test, uninstall, stop your license, then restart when you happen to get the 'forum bug.'
Other companies may not recognize the same outlook. That's okay, and great for forum owners. There's never been a clearer difference in the direction of companies.
1. You can go with an unregulated link directory. Total freedom, total risk.
2. You can go with a regulated marketplace. Less freedom, less risk.
That's it. You don't have to overthink it. As a forum owner, you have two very different choices in how you'd like to manage your third party ecosystem. Do you get everything you want in the way you want? No, but neither does your wife ?.
At the end of the day, IPS recognizes that the modern consumer is evolving. Modern consumers expect platforms as a service like Shopify, Etsy, Discord, Facebook Groups where all of the technology magically happens behind the scenes. You don't need to be a "webmaster" to run a successful community anymore. You need people skills, communication skills, leadership, and organizational management. You don't need three empty forums and a dozen second-hand licenses where you install, review, test, uninstall, stop your license, then restart when you happen to get the 'forum bug.'
Other companies may not recognize the same outlook. That's okay, and great for forum owners. There's never been a clearer difference in the direction of companies.
- Moderator
- #90
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,450
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,766
Everyone knows Facebook takes our personal data and sells it. Essentially, they have turned our interests, our ideas, our lives into a commodity. Yet we continue to support Facebook because it's so damned easy and convenient.
Fans of IPS rationalize it in various ways, but really, the company has done something similar on a smaller scale. They have leveraged human nature to create their own brand of ransomware and I say good on them. They've created a product that is appealing enough to forum owners they are willing to accept terms they would otherwise balk at.
Is it a bad thing? Apparently not, because forum owners are still buying the software and supporting the company, even many who complain about the licensing terms. Why? Because it's just so damned easy and convenient. That shows everyone IPS has chosen the correct path. Before long Xenforo and others will follow suit.
Whinging about it in a forum thread isn't going to do anything. If forum owners really want the company to change the way they do business, they'll stop buying and using the software, and start campaigning loudly and publicly about it. Given enough impetus, IPS will change its licensing terms to better suit their customers. If forum owners aren't willing to eschew the software or organize and make their voices heard, then it's time to close your eyes, bend over, and think happy thoughts.
Fans of IPS rationalize it in various ways, but really, the company has done something similar on a smaller scale. They have leveraged human nature to create their own brand of ransomware and I say good on them. They've created a product that is appealing enough to forum owners they are willing to accept terms they would otherwise balk at.
Is it a bad thing? Apparently not, because forum owners are still buying the software and supporting the company, even many who complain about the licensing terms. Why? Because it's just so damned easy and convenient. That shows everyone IPS has chosen the correct path. Before long Xenforo and others will follow suit.
Whinging about it in a forum thread isn't going to do anything. If forum owners really want the company to change the way they do business, they'll stop buying and using the software, and start campaigning loudly and publicly about it. Given enough impetus, IPS will change its licensing terms to better suit their customers. If forum owners aren't willing to eschew the software or organize and make their voices heard, then it's time to close your eyes, bend over, and think happy thoughts.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2009
- Messages
- 13
I recently switched from MyBb to IPB mostly because MyBB was starting to get old and out dated and the MyBb 3rd party apps are all over the place...limited support, no support. Totally hit or miss! I have found IPB to be 100 times better with ticket support but the peer to peer help crowd is getting slim! The days of free or inexpensive plugins are gone! IPB will not support any kind of 3rd party apps or theme changes so you have to rely on the IPB community for that kind of support which forces me to mainly stay with a default theme and as few apps/plugins as I can! But, IPB's core software definitely includes more features than MyBB so I didn't have to add as many apps to run it like I want.
The other big concern is price...I don't mind the initial cost of the software but the bi-yearly license renewal is troubling to me! Not only do I have IPB's fees to worry about, I also have to pay bi-yearly fees for almost any 3rd party apps that I add (to keep support). Now, I totally support people getting paid for their quality dev work, but charging renewal fees every 6 months is kind of a hardship for forum owners! Personally, I would prefer yearly renewals at best! I'd much rather pay a little higher premium for the license and apps and have lifetime upgrades! The forum software changes so often, you almost need to maintain your licenses so you can upgrade or fall victim to losing features or worse...hackers!
In conclusion, I really do like IPB and I am a proud IPB owner but I really wish they would go easy on owners with the price of renewals and such as well as 3rd party dev's. Everyone deserves to be paid for their talents but you can't price yourself and the software out of business either! I also wish IPB would support minor theme change issues instead of making us rely on 3rd party devs! 3rd party devs can come and go, lose intrest, disappear and leave you hanging! They are a great resource but definitely risky for a smooth running board! I had to watch my initial budget so I had to chose what IPB modules I wanted...I chose gallery and blogs but now I wish I would have got pages instead of blogs! I already asked to swap but no options for that are available, LOL!
The other big concern is price...I don't mind the initial cost of the software but the bi-yearly license renewal is troubling to me! Not only do I have IPB's fees to worry about, I also have to pay bi-yearly fees for almost any 3rd party apps that I add (to keep support). Now, I totally support people getting paid for their quality dev work, but charging renewal fees every 6 months is kind of a hardship for forum owners! Personally, I would prefer yearly renewals at best! I'd much rather pay a little higher premium for the license and apps and have lifetime upgrades! The forum software changes so often, you almost need to maintain your licenses so you can upgrade or fall victim to losing features or worse...hackers!
In conclusion, I really do like IPB and I am a proud IPB owner but I really wish they would go easy on owners with the price of renewals and such as well as 3rd party dev's. Everyone deserves to be paid for their talents but you can't price yourself and the software out of business either! I also wish IPB would support minor theme change issues instead of making us rely on 3rd party devs! 3rd party devs can come and go, lose intrest, disappear and leave you hanging! They are a great resource but definitely risky for a smooth running board! I had to watch my initial budget so I had to chose what IPB modules I wanted...I chose gallery and blogs but now I wish I would have got pages instead of blogs! I already asked to swap but no options for that are available, LOL!
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 896
To be fair IPS is not known to be a cheap option and they have stated they are not trying to be the cheapest. And if I were them I wouldn't support changes to the theme or any add ons, Running that type of support for the total unknown would probably require more people on staff which in turn would cause the price to go up. Altering the defualt theme isn't difficult, it takes a bit of time to do if you are learning your way around and if you make only css changes and make sure to add those changes to the custom.css file then you won't loose support on it.
The 3rd party devs can be tricky, there is only 1 I trust 100% to support his apps and a couple others I am ok with as far as that goes, also some others I wouldn't give a nickel. But at the same time nothing is installed I can't live without and if it were something I can't live without.
Overall I think Invision Community represents great value for money. But that being said, I do feel the marketplace and the way licencing now works could well prove problematic for Invision. I've had two conversations recently with very well respected 3rd party devs who are very unsettled by the whole thing. We were told that the marketplace changes were necessary because of this and that. But frankly, I just saw it as a land grab by the vendors. Either way, because of the unease I feel, whether I am right or not, little of the $250k or so we as a smallish company have planned to invest in online communities over the next 18 months, will be going Invision's way.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 894
So I've been on 4.54 for a few days and I have to say I am super impressed. This is probably one of the best and most polished major upgrades to come out of IPS in I don't know how many years. I always keep my software in support, so I don't have a dog in the marketplace access fight. I have argued at IPS's site for years that they needed something similar to the Wordpress add-ons system that allowed users to point and click with their add-ons, and IPS delivered.
That said, aside from all the UI enhancements and great looks (I use a very mildly modified version of the default theme), the biggest improvement by far is the speed. Speed has always been an issue with IPS, and no matter how much horsepower I would throw at the software, I couldn't get it to run as fast as sites running XF or even VB. I got tired of trying to tinker with my server to shave milliseconds off TTFB and page load speeds and just got it to "good enough to be usable" knowing I would never win any speedtest ratings. Overall, my Google Pagespeeds are still crap, but 98% of that is not IPS's fault. Some of it could be the move to PHP 7.3 that I did, but I think that most of it came from the new version of IPS. My site feels just as snappy as any XF site now when making posts or navigating pages. (I'm still rather image-heavy, not IPS's fault).
So Bravo bfarber and Matt M ! You did great!
That said, aside from all the UI enhancements and great looks (I use a very mildly modified version of the default theme), the biggest improvement by far is the speed. Speed has always been an issue with IPS, and no matter how much horsepower I would throw at the software, I couldn't get it to run as fast as sites running XF or even VB. I got tired of trying to tinker with my server to shave milliseconds off TTFB and page load speeds and just got it to "good enough to be usable" knowing I would never win any speedtest ratings. Overall, my Google Pagespeeds are still crap, but 98% of that is not IPS's fault. Some of it could be the move to PHP 7.3 that I did, but I think that most of it came from the new version of IPS. My site feels just as snappy as any XF site now when making posts or navigating pages. (I'm still rather image-heavy, not IPS's fault).
So Bravo bfarber and Matt M ! You did great!
D
Deleted member 3691
Guest
Thanks so much for the feedback!
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
- Messages
- 2,654
The Marketplace integration is a game changer for me.
I've ran/hosted my own forums 15+ years. I can easily install plugins the old fashioned way (yes, it's old fashioned now).
But does that mean I want to? F*** no.
I've said many times on TAZ I do 99% of my web use & forum admin'ing on my cell phone. The marketplace integration greatly expanded my capabilities & convenience on mobile.
Disclaimer: IPS warns the integrated marketplace isn't built for mobile. I simply load the desktop version on my cell & continue on. Zero issues so far.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2011
- Messages
- 5,964
Still exited but to upgrade the forums to newest version will cost us 200 dollars and i will not commit those funds yet. Maybe next year that i allocate the money for upgrading.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 894
Maybe take up a collection from your members? Everyone chips in 2 or 3 dollars. I don't know what version you're on, but the speed upgrade is probably worth it. In the meantime, upgrade to PHP 7.3 (or 7.4) and do the table upgrade I posted about here to get ready.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2011
- Messages
- 5,964
We use donorbox to collect money but at the moment i can not justify the money while everything is running smoothly. The server is running 7.4 and the latest of MySQL/MariaDB and PostGreSQL 11.9. The other site is running XF 2.2 fully upgraded. We depend on volunteers and all expenses are paid by donations.