Are you excited for IPB 4.5?

[Doug Heffernan]

palhanow, I would go ahead and move to Ipb if I were you. Nothing is going to happen in the new version of xf imo.

Regarding the extra costs, look at it that way, if you buy the extra apps like the Pages, Blog etc from Ipb, you are garanteed that they will be maintained and supported fully. Whereas if you purchase said apps for your xf forum from third party developers, you will be taking a risk and you will have no garantee at all.

xf is a has been, yesterday 's news. Ipb is the future of forums.

 

[haqzore]

xf is a has been, yesterday 's news. Ipb is the future of forums.

As some one who runs both a XF and an IPS site, I disagree.


I think XF is punching above their weight with their landing page branding the software as a "community platform". It just isn't. And that's okay. XF can easily be argued as the best forum software. But it's not community software.

IPS is the community software they brand themselves as, with much more functionality than just a "forum". Comparing XF to IPS is becoming more and more an "apples to oranges" comparison with each IPS update.


XF has chosen to have a tightly focused vision & has executed against that admirably.


IPS chose to break the barriers of what forum software "should be" long ago & as incrementally improved a much wider array of products.


If XF competes with vBulletin/BurningBoard/Insert_Forum_Script_Here.
Then IPS competes with XF, Wordpress, Magento, and much more all in one package.


Neither is right or wrong. They are different. Apples/oranges.

 

[Kaelon]

Not only am I so excited for IPB 4.5, but I'm actually delaying the purchase of my Invision software until it's been released, so that I can start from a fresh 4.5 codebase

 

[DanielF]

Not only am I so excited for IPB 4.5, but I'm actually delaying the purchase of my Invision software until it's been released, so that I can start from a fresh 4.5 codebase

Or you just get it now and start planning your new community( create the forums structure, groups etc) , start submitting content, get familiar with the ACP and frontend and once 4.5 is here,you can finish your custom theme and plugins, open the community and start promoting it, so you don’t get overwhelmed with all the new work
That what I’ve literally starting doing 1 week ago for my new project

 

[nadaa]

I'm really, really excited about this huge team effort.
There are so many new features and enhancements, I can't even pick my favorite one because they're all great.
Starting with the new mobile app which I really don't want to miss anymore, all the club enhancements, the new front and backend theme, I think almost a dozen of new widgets suite wide, the forum and topic view, all the other background improvements to make the system faster and more stable... the brand new statistical trends section in the ACP and last but not least ZAPIER integration, which is really really huge and which is going to be a huge time and money saver for many clients.

if I understand then there are new widgets that have not been announced on the blog?

 

[DanielF]

if I understand then there are new widgets that have not been announced on the blog?

No sorry, I was meaning https://invisioncommunity.com/news/product-updates/45-page-builder-widgets-r1196/

 

[Doug Heffernan]

They are different. Apples/oranges.

They are different alright. But not Apples/oranges, more like Porsche (Ipb)/Lada(xf) lol

Or you just get it now and start planning your new community( create the forums structure, groups etc) , start submitting content, get familiar with the ACP and frontend and once 4.5 is here,you can finish your custom theme and plugins, open the community and start promoting it, so you don’t get overwhelmed with all the new work
That what I’ve literally starting doing 1 week ago for my new project

Do you have a rough estimation as to when 4.5 will be released?

 

[Dubbed Navigator]

Xf should break out of their mentaility that new features are not needed imo. I think that if they will not keep up with Ipb 4.5. they will lloose a lot of current and potential customers.

XF does feel like it has gone somewhat stale lately, I'm a big supporter of it and switched a year ago, but it does feel like it.

What new features do they offer that make it so compelling for the switch?
Taking on migration, while not impossible, especially for an active community will require weeks if not months of planning to be smooth, and even then never is perfect.

For me, the hosted option is something the interests me. When I switched away, the expense wasnt something I could justify when there were good features on XF that IPS didnt have. The hosted option is now something I may consider good value at some point.

Well, just look the features page on IPB:

View attachment 54381

So, there basically everything that i need to go beyond XF basic Forum features, with the plus of 4.5 version coming with a App.

XF really offer the best Forum experience, but is just that. The spartan model of Forums system. Works well, have all the essential functions and that's it.

Now look at IPB.

They have everything that i need to go beyond the essential, basically transforming my site in a very complete portal/community with a lot of resources to explore and expand my capabilities for my costumers, in a official way of doing things, not depending of add-ons, many of then, expensive as hell that should be official.

It's expensive? Yes. I would expend more than U$ 2k to go for IPS, with the migration service and all this features and more costs for renewal.

I'm very happy with XF, but they need to go beyond that.

Is what i said in my last thread about the subject:

XenForo mastered the forum software. Now is time to go beyond with a road map.

Hello TAZ Community. I'm dealing with Forums all my life and you guys can see my background in my previously posts if wanted. First, i don't want to go in XenForo official community for discussing this subject, because i don't feel that we, clients, are generally welcome there. I don't know...

www.theadminzone.com

So, is very tempting to do a migration.

I'm waiting, giving XF one more shot for the next version and see what going to happen.

And i have to consider the costs, and specially with the Coronavirus situation, because my revenue dropped like a meteor.

I had exactly the opposite opinion with regards to 3rd party addons a year ago. I'm starting to shift towards this way of thinking.

As some one who runs both a XF and an IPS site, I disagree.


I think XF is punching above their weight with their landing page branding the software as a "community platform". It just isn't. And that's okay. XF can easily be argued as the best forum software. But it's not community software.

IPS is the community software they brand themselves as, with much more functionality than just a "forum". Comparing XF to IPS is becoming more and more an "apples to oranges" comparison with each IPS update.


XF has chosen to have a tightly focused vision & has executed against that admirably.


IPS chose to break the barriers of what forum software "should be" long ago & as incrementally improved a much wider array of products.


If XF competes with vBulletin/BurningBoard/Insert_Forum_Script_Here.
Then IPS competes with XF, Wordpress, Magento, and much more all in one package.


Neither is right or wrong. They are different. Apples/oranges.

Interesting way of thinking about it. Realistically, it very much depends on the direction you want to take your forum. A discussion board, or a community. Neither is right or wrong.

 

[lordi]

i like the new layout for the new version, cant wait to upgrade my community into 4.5

 

[Matt M]

What new features do they offer that make it so compelling for the switch?
Taking on migration, while not impossible, especially for an active community will require weeks if not months of planning to be smooth, and even then never is perfect.

Migration is something you want to think carefully about for sure. It takes a bit of time, you have to get your members on side and so on. But when it's managed well, it can be a smooth positive process.

I wrote a guide on it a short while ago: Moving to Invision Community

 

[Joel R]

They have everything that i need to go beyond the essential, basically transforming my site in a very complete portal/community with a lot of resources to explore and expand my capabilities for my costumers, in a official way of doing things, not depending of add-ons, many of then, expensive as hell that should be official.

This is a great point.

When I first evaluated paid software platforms (originally I started like many others on SMF), there was already a divide between forum-only and community platforms. While forums will always be the beating heart of my community for member connections and engagement, it was the additional applications of Invision Community that helped me to build an ecosystem of resources, databases, and reference materials AROUND the community. In fact, those other portions of my website now far exceed the activity of my actual forums and I'm glad I made the strategic decision to focus on those 'hard knowledge' areas.

For forward-looking community administrators, forums by themselves are no longer sufficient. (Not unless you have an existing brand or audience to drive members). You simply cannot compete with the mega-platforms of Amino Apps, Discord, Reddit, MeWe, and Facebook. One of the few ways for you to compete is with superior knowledge and content, and the ecosystem of applications of Invision Community can help you do that far more than only forums.

I know in another topic they talked about IPS being more expensive. One important fact that nobody is talking about is how first-party apps - professionally developed, maintained, and supported with integrated mechanics to the community platform - are actually cheaper in the long run. Why? Invision Community already contains off-the-shelf apps, so you can "grow into them" whenever you're ready. On other platforms, you will need to rely on third-party. There is a real financial cost to relying on third-parties, including a lack of development, lack of support, lack of integration to the newest version of the core software. And in the forum world, most of those third-parties are not professional, but hobbyist developers who do it "for fun." You may pay more for IPS upfront, but you have a clear growth path already built in.

 

[palhanow]

This is a great point.

When I first evaluated paid software platforms (originally I started like many others on SMF), there was already a divide between forum-only and community platforms. While forums will always be the beating heart of my community for member connections and engagement, it was the additional applications of Invision Community that helped me to build an ecosystem of resources, databases, and reference materials AROUND the community. In fact, those other portions of my website now far exceed the activity of my actual forums and I'm glad I made the strategic decision to focus on those 'hard knowledge' areas.

For forward-looking community administrators, forums by themselves are no longer sufficient. (Not unless you have an existing brand or audience to drive members). You simply cannot compete with the mega-platforms of Amino Apps, Discord, Reddit, MeWe, and Facebook. One of the few ways for you to compete is with superior knowledge and content, and the ecosystem of applications of Invision Community can help you do that far more than only forums.

I know in another topic they talked about IPS being more expensive. One important fact that nobody is talking about is how first-party apps - professionally developed, maintained, and supported with integrated mechanics to the community platform - are actually cheaper in the long run. Why? Invision Community already contains off-the-shelf apps, so you can "grow into them" whenever you're ready. On other platforms, you will need to rely on third-party. There is a real financial cost to relying on third-parties, including a lack of development, lack of support, lack of integration to the newest version of the core software. And in the forum world, most of those third-parties are not professional, but hobbyist developers who do it "for fun." You may pay more for IPS upfront, but you have a clear growth path already built in.

Your reply should be fixed in the first post of this thread.

I cannot agree more what you said about this. You showed great points that have to be taken in consideration for anyone who is going to think about take the next step in a just Forum experience and try to go for a "Community" experience.

Yeah, Forums make my heart beat, since i was in the internet since the 90's, but we need to evolve and i feel a little behind in this terms when i think about my website.

I moved all my "CMS" content to the Forum, ditching my Wordpress, making my 'brand' with XF, but now i need a little more. The AMS from Bob was the best thing that i did in my website, moving all my 'clients' and users to the Forum experience and I have the feeling that we need to do more, to catch more audience.

Like you said: your other portions of your website are now bigger than the Forum itself and that's a great thing, basically a case study for any Forum owner.

If i catch all my paid add-ons, licenses and other stuff that i expend with my XF installation, probably is somewhere between the full IPS package.

Unfortunately 2020 is not doing so great for business, specially here in Brazil. Let's see what happens in august. This semester for me is gone.

 

[Jura]

There's a difference between a feature for a forum and a whole entire add-on.

 

[interista]

Always excited to see the latest updates from IPB - they seem to be bringing out some great new features. I'm still on XF but always keep an eye on IPB's progress and am liking it more and more.

What do u like more of IB?

 

[whitetigergrowl]

What I find funny and sad is that no matter the discussion on forums it generally comes down to XF and IPB. Never a word about VB anymore. And after looking at a recent thread someone made on their official forum asking about VB6, it's safe to say VB for the time being is a thing of the past for most people. They've essentially driven it into the ground. It's not even in the running for consideration for most people anymore it seems.

Either kill it, sell it to someone else in the hopes it'll get better again, or get a better team there. The official forums are essentially dead. Some of that I attribute to how they handled members years ago by banning anyone that got too loud which turned them off and anyway from VB. And I also attribute it to the downgrade in forum software quality. I don't think they even know who their target audience is anymore.

Some hold onto Xenforo because some of the developers of it are coders from VB 3. Which is considered the best version of VB by and large. So while XF has a good product, some hold onto them more out of the hope Xenforo can be a re-living of those VB glory days.

IPB has been the only solid forum software for some time. It's had it's mis-steps, but all in all seems more focused and reliable and forward thinking than the other guys. The new IPB looks much better. Can't wait to see where it goes from here!

 

[ibaker]

The one greatest advantage IPS has over XF is the Pages/Database feature...you can really break out of the old stale forum mindset and create just about anything you want and really specific to your userbase without being tied to the pain of updates, costs, buggy etc of addons...no matter what your site is for. The Pages/database feature is so bloody powerful.

But as a current site owner of both XF and IPS sites I can say that it is such a hard decision to decide between the 2. XF is surely the absolute best Forum only solution but in recent times, including v2.2, has been poisoned by absolute complication to the user and site owner. Their template system took an enormous negative hit with v2 and now the silly way (my opinion only) of trying to add some kind of pseudo CMS entangled within forum nodes is, well, just plain bad. XFv1 was such a great product, like the general opinion of v3 of vBulletin, but time has destroyed XF from the greatness it could have been.

But, IPS is not free from issues either especially in the area of functionality and ease of use for site owners which also requires some addons but I can say the addons that are developed for IPS are far superior in quality and functionality than XF ones.

XF listens to what the techo, alpha male nerds say and stuff their general customers and IPS listens to all their customers...I think that is the difference

 

[DigNap15]

The one greatest advantage IPS has over XF is the Pages/Database feature...you can really break out of the old stale forum mindset and create just about anything you want and really specific to your userbase without being tied to the pain of updates, costs, buggy etc of addons...no matter what your site is for. The Pages/database feature is so bloody powerful.

But as a current site owner of both XF and IPS sites I can say that it is such a hard decision to decide between the 2. XF is surely the absolute best Forum only solution but in recent times, including v2.2, has been poisoned by absolute complication to the user and site owner. Their template system took an enormous negative hit with v2 and now the silly way (my opinion only) of trying to add some kind of pseudo CMS entangled within forum nodes is, well, just plain bad. XFv1 was such a great product, like the general opinion of v3 of vBulletin, but time has destroyed XF from the greatness it could have been.

But, IPS is not free from issues either especially in the area of functionality and ease of use for site owners which also requires some addons but I can say the addons that are developed for IPS are far superior in quality and functionality than XF ones.

XF listens to what the techo, alpha male nerds say and stuff their general customers and IPS listens to all their customers...I think that is the difference

I'm a XF 2.0 user with no admin experience of any other forum
But from what you say above it does look as if IPS could be the best overall option (disregarding costs)
And I agree with your last senence.
If there were not all the add-on delevopers making money from XF, then maybe XF would be forced to add many of those feautures natively.
And I agree with what you say about XF becoming overly complicated

 

[Dubbed Navigator]

The one greatest advantage IPS has over XF is the Pages/Database feature...you can really break out of the old stale forum mindset and create just about anything you want and really specific to your userbase without being tied to the pain of updates, costs, buggy etc of addons...no matter what your site is for. The Pages/database feature is so bloody powerful.

But as a current site owner of both XF and IPS sites I can say that it is such a hard decision to decide between the 2. XF is surely the absolute best Forum only solution but in recent times, including v2.2, has been poisoned by absolute complication to the user and site owner. Their template system took an enormous negative hit with v2 and now the silly way (my opinion only) of trying to add some kind of pseudo CMS entangled within forum nodes is, well, just plain bad. XFv1 was such a great product, like the general opinion of v3 of vBulletin, but time has destroyed XF from the greatness it could have been.

But, IPS is not free from issues either especially in the area of functionality and ease of use for site owners which also requires some addons but I can say the addons that are developed for IPS are far superior in quality and functionality than XF ones.

XF listens to what the techo, alpha male nerds say and stuff their general customers and IPS listens to all their customers...I think that is the difference

It is correct that some of the XF Add-ons can be of poor quality, I've seen that with several of them. XF has a certain standard Add-ons have to achieve in order to be able to market on thier resource manager, but that can only do so much.

But I think I prime example of where I think you are wrong on your last statement is the attachment mirroring feature on 2.2. This is a great idea and something that's been requested for a long time by customers.

Granted, it shows they are more interested in thier own ideas (following thier own plan essentially) than whatever customers ask for. It's been frustrating for a long time how slow things seem to have progressed.

What I think it's important to remember is when a company starts following the vision of the public, rather than thier own, the future Road map can start to get rather tangled / messy. They have thier own plan and ongoing development with thier vision at the core is a crucial part of that.

 

[ibaker]

Unfortunately I am going to have to take back what I said about IPS, with v4.5 it is rapidly becoming something that i very much dislike:

Localhost Downloading of marketplace apps/plugins (manually)

As recommended, Im creating this topic to reinstate the option to download files manually from the Marketplace. Its bad enough you dont allow the download of apps we purchased when our licence has expired. But, to completely change the way file downloads are handle is a little much. Please dont g...

invisioncommunity.com

 

[haqzore]

I do see the desire to retain the old way...

But I have to be honest... IPSLindy's explanations just make sense to me.

I do prefer the point & click direction IPS is going, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I like participating in my sites much more than tinkering.