An International Voting System

[Anton Chigurh]

Definitely but to take it a stage further in my utopia there is no currency to redistribute, just a desire to better yourself for the benefit of everyone.

I've know of Kurtweil but I've not read his books. Perhaps I should

He leans way far optimistic as to consequences, in my view. But his theories especially his "law of accelerating returns" is intriguing. The Singularity is Near is a pretty dense read, but worth the investment.

in my utopia there is no currency to redistribute, just a desire to better yourself for the benefit of everyone.

Jean-Luc Picard. ST First Contact, to Lily.

 

[Nev_Dull]

The range of problems is huge, Nev_Dull, and so that bit about the number of years just one human has been at this is interesting.

I agree, developing a working concept for a single world government is a huge task. However, you've indicated your focus is on a voting system, which is a substantially smaller problem, and by your posts, your concern is mostly with the physical makeup of that system, which is smaller still.

As for the cost factor, yep - - - a mighty expensive business. Maybe very, very expensive would be a better way to put it. But how expensive?

This is exactly what I thought you would have already investigated, and why I wonder about your insistence the answer is the internet. As someone else pointed out, building out the internet infrastructure to cover every household is indeed a very expensive proposition. What alternatives have you looked at?

You appear to think of this voting system as revolutionary, rather than evolutionary. The physical system doesn't have to be expensive at all. The process of voting requires transmitting a tiny amount of data that could be handled by existing wireline and wireless networks that cover more of the population than internet. We've all used our phones to do automated polls and questionnaires that are more complex than a voting ballot. There's also no reason to expect (at least initially) that one single input method should be used across the world. Where internet or other infrastructure exists, it can be used. Where it doesn't, voters could use their phones, dedicated polling stations, or even physical ballots, as they do now. Naturally, if a single world government is established, a permanent voting infrastructure would be created.

 

[Joel R]

This entire topic is ridiculous, but I'm bored so I'll play along.

First of all, will this world government be comprised of direct votes by citizens or will it be representative?

Second, who will pay for this world government?

Three, why would any existing government give up their sovereignty to this world government? What will you do for countries that don't want to participate?

Fourth, how will regional disputes be settled?

Fifth, as a smaller scale experiment, please let me tax, regulate, and control the flow of goods and services into your home. I'm the world government, you're the citizen.

Let's pretend like you can actually and legitimately answer these questions on these forum boards. We all know you can't, but let's pretend so we can talk about how to actually vote on the internet.

1. How will you ensure security and integrity of an internet voting system?

2. There are portions of the world that don't have potable water. How will they get internet access, much less the fiber optic, electricity, and basic infrastructure necesarry to support any of this infrastructure?

3. How will you digitally verify each citizen before voting?

4. How will you prevent bad actors from intercepting or manipulating the voting system?

5. What if there's an electricity outage? What's your fall back plan for voting?

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Let's pretend like you can actually and legitimately answer these questions on these forum boards. We all know you can't

But.... But.... The OP studied this for over 20 years! So much study that it's out of the classroom now and is in the LAB and how dare anyone suggest it read a book!

 

[truthingtotruth]

Joel R, I am going to ask the administration here if I may invite a person to this forum that is much better at answering your questions.

You see, I am not alone in this project; not by a long shot. In addition, there have been some human folks that are way, way beyond me in brain power that have intelligently advocated the idea of some sort of world governing entity, but I am a human with no great medals of accomplishment in my dresser drawer, so I can see why folks aren't going to take me too seriously, especially when I throw out this idea in a community that isn't dedicated to one idea/goal such as I am placing before y'all in this thread. BUT - - - this is a community of folks that have their own communities scattered around our Internet and some of you may have political topics allowed in your communities and might just have some interest in this idea and might be willing to offer ideas.

And you are offering outstanding assistance, Joel R, in your post with your latter 5 questions. Absolutely outstanding. Thank you.

But your questions preceding the 5 I just noted might be better addressed by the lawyer fella I made note of in one of my earlier posts, and for that I need to ask the admin folks here if I am stepping out of bounds by asking him here to help me.

But he does human rights work and is a terribly busy human. And he might not appreciate my referring to him as a "lawyer fella" as that isn't on any official document giving him authority to do law stuff.

And to both Joel R and Nev_Dull, one small point about using the Net, let me offer something from some other professional folks that I do not need to invite to our community because they published in a journal:

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
ELECTION LAW JOURNAL
Volume 17, Number 3, 2018
Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
DOI: 10.1089/elj.2017.0478

Cost of Voting in the American States
Quan Li, Michael J. Pomante II, and Scot Schraufnagel

Under the sub-title, "CREATING THE COST OF VOTING INDEX FOR RECENT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEARS"

Note 2: In the 2016 presidential election cycle, 34 states allowed online voter registration (<http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-andcampaigns/electronic-or-online-voter-registration.aspx>, last accessed July 19, 2017), but this number was not nearly as high in earlier years. For instance, in 1996 no states allowed online voter registration, and in 2012 only 14 states allowed for voter registration via the Internet.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

But that is only addressing numbers for online registration on the Net, so it is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
NOTE: If the admin folks feel this thread has gone too far and are of the opinion it should be locked, I completely understand. And I'll offer a public apology. But I really thought that with regard to dealings on the Net, this wasn't such a bad community to be asking about using the Net for voting. I don't wish for any of you admin folks to think I am ignoring your earlier sort of warning to me.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Three, why would any existing government give up their sovereignty to this world government?

195 countries in the world, 12 major religious practices, 100s more not considered major, and they are ALL going to just go hallelujah cum-by-ya and happily join a benevolent one world hegemony that does away with currency and takes care of us ALL equally, loves us and would NEVER horde wealth for its core power class or commit violence to suppress opposition! Because there are soooo many SMART people who advocate for this, we shouldn't quibble about details!

You see, I am not alone in this project

Exactly. Every despotic dictatorship throughout human history had this same goal! Dammit if we would have just let Stalin have the whole world under his rule after that mean ole war, I bet we'd all be drinkin' free BubbleUp, and eatin' that rainbow stew with a silver spoon underneath those skies of blue!

 

[we_are_borg]

This entire topic is ridiculous, but I'm bored so I'll play along.

Lets play

First of all, will this world government be comprised of direct votes by citizens or will it be representative?

Direct votes me thinks most countries do this all ready.

Second, who will pay for this world government?

Hard to say if we still have money at that point the same way as your own government, by taxes.

Three, why would any existing government give up their sovereignty to this world government? What will you do for countries that don't want to participate?

For the benefit of humanity if we want to travel beyond this solar system we need to combine the resources of this planet and solar system

Fourth, how will regional disputes be settled?

By court of law if you will have any by that time.

Fifth, as a smaller scale experiment, please let me tax, regulate, and control the flow of goods and services into your home. I'm the world government, you're the citizen.

That experiment the EU is doing and its not going great because the playing field is not level. Also we are still competing with one and other, instead of becoming richer we get poorer because of taxes and how the economy works in the EU.

Let's pretend like you can actually and legitimately answer these questions on these forum boards. We all know you can't, but let's pretend so we can talk about how to actually vote on the internet.

1. How will you ensure security and integrity of an internet voting system?

You can’t the voting box is the only way at this moment to ensure the vote is not manipulated.

2. There are portions of the world that don't have potable water. How will they get internet access, much less the fiber optic, electricity, and basic infrastructure necesarry to support any of this infrastructure?

This is an issue now but world government will take years to do think 500 to 1000 years in that time i hope we arise above petty stuff and work as one.

3. How will you digitally verify each citizen before voting?

With current technology we can’t do that as of yet, but think 500 to 1000 years ahead.

4. How will you prevent bad actors from intercepting or manipulating the voting system?

See number 3

5. What if there's an electricity outage? What's your fall back plan for voting?

See number 2

 

[we_are_borg]

The first thing that really needs to be done is from money oriented society to resource society. We have the https://www.thevenusproject.com/ venus project for that.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

some human folks that are way, way beyond me in brain power

Yep, every other participant in this thread so far. Probably every reader, too.

 

[R0binHood]

I think we just need to let the world decay into such a point that we become desperate and seek out one person smart enough to solve it all for us.

There's a great documentary called 'Idiocracy' that covers a lot of these issues. It highlights the benefits of getting more celebrities and money involved in politics first of all (we've seen how popular and successful this has been the last couple of years). Also lots of guns, they're very effective at solving a lot of these problem and silencing those that get in the way of enacting the grand plan. Also more and more sponsorship and corporate influence is very important.

Here's a clip, I think we're doing pretty well making our way to this dystopian future already tbh.

 

[truthingtotruth]

There is one point about having a single governing body for all humans on Earth, and that is being able to set international regulations on health care and maybe seeing that everyone receives good health care.

But there is another matter that I was worried about bringing up, but I see one admin is posting, so maybe this is a legal post I am doing.

And I see that yellow stripe informing me somebody is posting again. I better hit the "Post Reply" button. (I love the use of the two upper-care letters in that button.)

 

[Joel R]

There is one point about having a single governing body for all humans on Earth, and that is being able to set international regulations on health care and maybe seeing that everyone receives good health care.

But there is another matter that I was worried about bringing up, but I see one admin is posting, so maybe this is a legal post I am doing.

And I see that yellow stripe informing me somebody is posting again. I better hit the "Post Reply" button. (I love the use of the two upper-care letters in that button.)

But ... I don't care abour health care. And I certainly don't want to pay for it. Really Whether you have comprehensive healthcare coverage is not my concern.

Let me clarify that I'm not against YOU covering other people's coverage. You can already do so. It's called going down to the local homeless shelter and paying for all of their medical, dental, and vision out of your own pocket. I applaud you for being a generous soul. But I'm not sure that I have the money to provide for other peoples coverage. And I'm also not sure why you think it's right to use my money to pay for your healthcare and your health decisions?

 

[we_are_borg]

But ... I don't care abour health care. And I certainly don't want to pay for it. Really Whether you have comprehensive healthcare coverage is not my concern.

Let me clarify that I'm not against YOU covering other people's coverage. You can already do so. It's called going down to the local homeless shelter and paying for all of their medical, dental, and vision out of your own pocket. I applaud you for being a generous soul. But I'm not sure that I have the money to provide for other peoples coverage. And I'm also not sure why you think it's right to use my money to pay for your healthcare and your health decisions?

Healthcare only works when everyone is covered because that drives the price down. But what people forget is that something like this is hundreds of years away, at the moment people only look too themselves and not at the greater good of mankind. We as humans are to selfish in this point and time.

 

[Nev_Dull]

And to both Joel R and Nev_Dull, one small point about using the Net, let me offer something from some other professional folks that I do not need to invite to our community because they published in a journal:

That's all very interesting for the US. However, it doesn't say anything for regions in Africa or India where they don't have the same level of internet coverage. My point is that elections happen now, in every place that has elections, so the mechanics of collecting votes isn't the thing that needs the most attention (aside from the security concerns already mentioned). The real focus should be on developing an electoral process -- who gets elected and how often; will electoral regions map to nations or something else; how are votes weighted; what is the relationship between national leaders and world government elected members; etc. etc. And all of that can only be sorted out after the specifics of what this world government is supposed to be and how it's supposed to work.

You've said there are lots of smart people working on this world government idea. Surely, after your 20 years of study, you should be able to at least summarize the concept so we have a frame of reference.

 

[Joel R]

Healthcare only works when everyone is covered because that drives the price down. But what people forget is that something like this is hundreds of years away, at the moment people only look too themselves and not at the greater good of mankind. We as humans are to selfish in this point and time.

Don't let me stop you from being selfless. I'm all for your generosity, so please, open your wallet and your heart.

 

[we_are_borg]

Don't let me stop you from being selfless. I'm all for your generosity, so please, open your wallet and your heart.

We have a healthcare system here in the Netherlands.

 

[mysiteguy]

Healthcare only works when everyone is covered because that drives the price down. But what people forget is that something like this is hundreds of years away, at the moment people only look too themselves and not at the greater good of mankind. We as humans are to selfish in this point and time.

If your neighbor can't pay their health care costs, do they have a right to come to your home and force you to open up your wallet and give them cash? Who's being selfish here, the neighbor who wants you to pay for their care, or you having the choice whether or not to help them? As a human being, you can choose to be as generous and unselfish as you wish.

 

[we_are_borg]

If your neighbor can't pay their health care costs, do they have a right to come to your home and force you to open up your wallet and give them cash? Who's being selfish here, the neighbor who wants you to pay for their care, or you having the choice whether or not to help them? As a human being, you can choose to be as generous and unselfish as you wish.

We have insurance that cover most medical bills some stuff you have to pay a small amount yourself, for example special shoes made for you they cost 1400 euro to make but insurance pays most your own contribution is 140 euro. You also get a bill for care that does not fall under primary care so you pay an additional 385 euros per year, think if they need to take blood that's going to the 385 euro max. Insurances work because everyone is accepted and everyone pays the same amount per year for basic healthcare, you can only be excluded if your religion forbids something like that (you then need to pay the bills yourself). Its the same with car insurance everyone that drives needs one no exceptions on that one.

Because of this system everyone get healthcare.

 

[doubt]

Because of this system everyone get healthcare.

In Australia it's similar.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

We have insurance that cover most medical bills some stuff you have to pay a small amount yourself, for example special shoes made for you they cost 1400 euro to make but insurance pays most your own contribution is 140 euro. You also get a bill for care that does not fall under primary care so you pay an additional 385 euros per year, think if they need to take blood that's going to the 385 euro max. Insurances work because everyone is accepted and everyone pays the same amount per year for basic healthcare, you can only be excluded if your religion forbids something like that (you then need to pay the bills yourself). Its the same with car insurance everyone that drives needs one no exceptions on that one.

Because of this system everyone get healthcare.

And if you can pay zero? No premiums no copays? That was the meter.