An International Voting System

Anton Chigurh

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Its 3 ways workers, employer and state all chip in. Thats why its limited to two years this will go up next year to 30 months because economics are better then 10 years ago in the past it was 3 years. But here in the Netherlands we make sure people can still live when they do not have work or got fired.
They still live here, too.
 

Anton Chigurh

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Would not matter if it works for 18 million it works for 500 million the money involved is more.
Of course, you save a ton of money there with the govt deciding who's worth the expense for what, and having human euthanasia for those inconvenient sick old people.

It works FOR YOU. Our system works for US. And it's typically those who haven't the first clue about our system, who make backhand accusatory statements like "well WE don't leave people behind" or "WE make sure they can live." Sanctimonious.
 

mysiteguy

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I don't know, the US(A) health care system seems pretty broken compared to other first world / Westernized countries.

Not entirely accurate.

What is broken here is cost of service.

The USA beats a great deal of the westernized countries when it comes to the number of patient visits per year, appointment wait times, wait times for elective/non-emergency surgery (such as hip replacements), MRI/Catscan wait times, cancer outcomes, etc. It certainly beats the Netherlands in all of these metrics.

And when other countries brag about things like lower infant mortality, they are using cherry-picked data.

In many countries, if an infant is born that was not viable to live long, it's not counted as mortality the same way a miscarriage isn't counted. In the USA, if the infant is delivered alive, and dies shortly afterward, it is counted as a fatality.

Likewise, teen births, no matter where you live in the world, have higher mortality rates. We have a big problem here with teenage pregnancies per capita. This raises the mortality rate, not because we have horrible care, but rather that we have more high-risk pregnancies.

There are things in other westernized countries which seem pretty broken compared to the USA, but likewise, it's not entirely accurate.
 

Anton Chigurh

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I don't know, the US(A) health care system seems pretty broken compared to other first world / Westernized countries.
Most people out there only know what the politicians and media tell them and don't have any grasp of the full scope of it, from indigent care as mentioned earlier, to the world class robust charity efforts and their successes, to strides of progress in treatment, research and development.
 

we_are_borg

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In the USA, if the infant is delivered alive, and dies shortly afterward, it is counted as a fatality.

Its 4 weeks after birth thats counted or when it dies in the womb. Its going down but if we look at countries around us its not on the same level.
 

we_are_borg

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MRI/Catscan wait times, cancer outcomes, etc. It certainly beats the Netherlands in all of these metrics.

It all depends i needed to wait to see a doctor but after a call i could see the doctor 3 weeks earlier. MRI/CT it depends what you’ll need CT here where i live was same day. MRI 1 week later was not urgent but we have cities that you’ll need to wait long time, in that case call other hospitals most likely they can do it faster. If its urgent like i had last year drive too hospital and within 2 hours i was in a MRI after that the longest wait was waiting on results was same day but it took time. It all depends how urgent you are.
 

phatcows

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What is broken here is cost of service.
Fair point.

The USA beats a great deal of the westernized countries when it comes to the number of patient visits per year, appointment wait times, wait times for elective/non-emergency surgery (such as hip replacements), MRI/Catscan wait times, cancer outcomes, etc. It certainly beats the Netherlands in all of these metrics.

The USA beats a great deal of the westernized countries in those numbers because it has a much greater population.

It's difficult to measure the healthcare outcomes of USA based on population alone as there are no other (westernized) countries with similar numbers.
However respected studies on healthcare outcomes in countries take into account the wealth of a country and/or how much a country spends on healthcare and the population.

I agree, there are plenty of cherry picked reports available en masse but if you read the studies from reputable organisations (like the WHO, OECD, Kaiser Family Foundation etc), it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
 

we_are_borg

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It's difficult to measure the healthcare outcomes of USA based on population alone as there are no other (westernized) countries with similar numbers.
However respected studies on healthcare outcomes in countries take into account the wealth of a country and/or how much a country spends on healthcare and the population.

This is an issue with USA vs fill in country, the prices are higher in the USA then Netherlands. Because of this you should have more hospitals and private clinics. We spend a lot on healthcare per head around 2600 euro per person (17,1 million).
 

truthingtotruth

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Jan 26, 2015
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Interesting that this thread went into the direction of health care, and I should apologize for a very long absence. In fact, my own health and the battle against a cancer problem was the original reason for the absence and then that darn virus trouble threw a real problem into my situation - - - well, enough about me.

What is very interesting is after the past year we can now see very clearly whether a given healthcare system in a particular national entity had the resources to be stretched as they have been and not break. I think with the United States, though, state entities have to be factored in, yes? Do I remember correctly that states have a lot of independence on such matters?

Anyway, I've got to go back and do better than a cursory review of the posts.

But, still, it is very interesting how this thread went into such detailed discussions and opinions of healthcare systems before the virus trouble hit.

NOTE: And, yes, I fully understand that the Covid-19 trouble will have its own thread and I will move my thoughts to there after this post and then take this back to the original idea of an international governing institution, which I have modified to some degree because I now understand much more clearly how the Internet will be the framework for that international governing system. Spending lots of time in hospitals and in a bed-type life does/did not stop one/me from studying.
 
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