An International Voting System

[Anton Chigurh]

Because of this system everyone get healthcare.

In the US this is also true. It's called "Indigent Care" whereas if someone is homeless, has no income at all and no job, he/she STILL gets healthcare. Indigent care varies some from state to state but basically it established Hospital Districts where certain hospitals are designated primary care facilities. These PC facilities cannot turn away any patient based on inability to pay and MUST treat the patient regardless. The patient gets no bill whatsoever from the Hospital. This is funded voluntarily via property tax, voluntary because it was voted on in the state legislature for the state you are in and you agree to it as a condition of property purchase. It also has the ability to fundraise, donations accepted.

 

[we_are_borg]

And if you can pay zero? No premiums no copays? That was the meter.

In the Netherlands the benefits you get if unemployed you can still pay basic needs like healthcare, rent, water, electric etc etc. We as the people said we do not want to leave anyone behind so when someone gets fired (not my own fault if its your own fault good luck) they get unemployment pay that's 70% of last 6 months average. After 2 years you get normal pay from unemployment pay that's 1000 euro a month, you can get more if your rent is to high or cant afford healthcare you get extra money there are special tables for that.

If you translate it to this situation you'll need to address this in hundreds of years in that time basic economics will have changed like i said most people its me me me especially in current time. People will most likely give up some part too others in the future so we can advance as species.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

In the Netherlands the benefits you get if unemployed you can still pay basic needs like healthcare, rent, water, electric etc etc. We as the people said we do not want to leave anyone behind so when someone gets fired (not my own fault if its your own fault good luck) they get unemployment pay that's 70% of last 6 months average. After 2 years you get normal pay from unemployment pay that's 1000 euro a month, you can get more if your rent is to high or cant afford healthcare you get extra money there are special tables for that.

And.... This is paid for by taxation. Is it voluntary taxation?

They have to still pay the copays and premiums, with the money they're given to sustain themselves? Seems circular.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

you'll need to address this in hundreds of years in that time basic economics will have changed

It's coming a lot faster than that, if something like Kurtzweil's Singularity comes into fruition.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

you'll need to address this in hundreds of years in that time basic economics will have changed like i said most people its me me me especially in current time. People will most likely give up some part too others in the future so we can advance as species.

"To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

It's always worked soooo well.

Meanwhile, WE have unemployment benefits too, almost exactly the same model but also works to help you find a job. If you are able-bodied, you better get your butt out there and try to get a job, because we verify you're at least trying. If after the time allotted you still don't have a job, the unemployment checks stop coming. If you don't keep up with the effort, the checks stop coming too regardless of time.

 

[we_are_borg]

And.... This is paid for by taxation. Is it voluntary taxation?

They have to still pay the copays and premiums, with the money they're given to sustain themselves? Seems circular.

But it works and tax is never voluntary its law just in all other countries.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

But it works and tax is never voluntary its law just in all other countries.

Tax is involuntary when it is imposed unilaterally. It is voluntary when it is approved by the voters. We have bond elections all the time, new one coming up for a local community college. We get to vote whether or not to let them raise our property taxes to upgrade facilities. The bond amount is 87 million and if passed will raise the taxes 40 dollars for a 100K property. If it fails the vote, they don't get to raise our taxes.

This is how we fund state and local government and services. The federal govt isn't involved and has no say. Just like the indigent care system.

 

[we_are_borg]

"To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

It's always worked soooo well.

Meanwhile, WE have unemployment benefits too, almost exactly the same model but also works to help you find a job. If you are able-bodied, you better get your butt out there and try to get a job, because we verify you're at least trying. If after the time allotted you still don't have a job, the unemployment checks stop coming. If you don't keep up with the effort, the checks stop coming too regardless of time.

Yes, getting work is always the end point, but if you cant find work after two years all working people (except owners of one man company but cant get this support) pay a small amount to support this. So after two years you get around 1000 euro to live of for that you’ll need to do certain things, like job hunting, volunteer at centers and work for 6 months (not full time) for the community. If you do not fulfill this obligation you get a penalty they can take away almost 50% of the money. Also you do not get 1000 euro but 0 if some one in the same houshold has a job or is already on this benefit. The rules are pretty strict.

 

[doubt]

In the US this is also true. It's called "Indigent Care" whereas if someone is homeless, has no income at all and no job, he/she STILL gets healthcare.

I have my own home but currently don't have any money, any income.
Would they turn me away from those hospitals?

 

[we_are_borg]

Tax is involuntary when it is imposed unilaterally. It is voluntary when it is approved by the voters. We have bond elections all the time, new one coming up for a local community college. We get to vote whether or not to let them raise our property taxes to upgrade facilities. The bond amount is 87 million and if passed will raise the taxes 40 dollars for a 100K property. If it fails the vote, they don't get to raise our taxes.

This is how we fund state and local government and services. The federal govt isn't involved and has no say. Just like the indigent care system.

We do not have that with general elections and local elections you’ll need to look what party does what with taxes. As home owner here you get taxed for owning a house, its a percentage of the value of the home. Garbage collection is also a tax but that is based on 1, 2 or more persons in houshold same with sewers.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

But it works

For 18 million population. Try it for 390 million (2020 US estimate) or for 700 million million (7 billion) for the whole planet. Which is after all, what the thread is about.

all working people (except owners of one man company but cant get this support) pay a small amount to support this.

In the US the workers don't pay for unemployment at all, the employer does. It's called "Unemployment Insurance" and it is administered by the state. If an employer fires someone it must be for good reason and he must be able to prove it, otherwise his rates skyrocket. We don't want people fired willy-nilly. So, let's say you're fired and you go down to apply for your unemployment benefit. The employer is notified and he has 7 days to file an appeal. If he does not, the claim is paid to the worker. If he does, he must prove the firing was for good and just cause. Either way, his rates go up, but goes up a lot more if he appeals and loses. And if he keeps doing that, his rates get punitive real fast.

Now, on a voluntary quit you're generally not eligible for unemployment benefits, but the unemployment office still serves you helping you find your next job, no fees involved. And they're very good at it, many employers post their job openings with them before anywhere else.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I have my own home but currently don't have any money, any income.
Would they turn me away from those hospitals?

No. They cannot turn you away based on inability to pay, ever. But property is an asset and they can place a lien on it. Mainly that makes them get paid, if you sell the property. They don't always place liens.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

As home owner here you get taxed for owning a house, its a percentage of the value of the home. Garbage collection is also a tax but that is based on 1, 2 or more persons in houshold same with sewers.

Here, there is no tax to the federal government for owning a home or property. ALL property taxes are paid to entities such as local govt, (county or city) and hospital district and school districts. Each of these has to hold an election to get any rate increases.

Water, garbage and sewer bill - paid to the city entity which supplies it. This is not considered a tax at all, this is a service, like cable TV for instance. These are regulated by the state, so their rates are fixed by the state utility commission. They have to go to the public utilities commission and get approval before they can raise rates at all, and we get to vote on it in a ballot that comes with the water bill. This is also governing natural gas and electric service providers. But not retail entities.

A local entity, named differently based on where you are, sets your valuation on your property, your assessment. This assessment is what your value is and what you're taxed on. NOT purchase price. You have the right every year, to protest any increase. Most people who do, win. Mine actually go down a little bit each year, depreciation.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Garbage collection is also a tax but that is based on 1, 2 or more persons in houshold same with sewers.

In the US typically if you live outside an incorporated city limit, you have no water, sewer or trash collection. You have to drill for water or have it trucked in. Sewer for you is a septic tank, trash collection is you haul it yourself to a landfill and pay a fee, or burn it on site. All of the above are regulated by either the county you're in, the state, or both. But you pay NO city taxes or regulation or zoning, no water bill at all, etc. It's called "Country Life."

You have service fees related to the occasional pumping out of your septic tank, and if you have a windmill you'll pay to keep the sucker tube working, and the gearbox. Most people have electric well pumps though. But, you gotta replace those every 15 years or so too. You take care of your own little infrastructure. BUT...

You get to grow your own vegetable food and keep livestock. Chickens, turkeys, hogs, cattle. You can become pretty much self sufficient.

 

[doubt]

Mine actually go down a little bit each year, depreciation.

Do you live in Detroit?

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Do you live in Detroit?

Ha! Would never even approach it. I live in the high desert of West Texas, where the buffalo still roam.

Some properties appreciate over time, some depreciate. Understand this isn't market value, this is tax appraisal. Market value keeps going up every year for me, don't know what it is for neighbors. It varies widely I suspect. In fact I'm sure of it.

But in the city proper, it does matter the condition of your property and the area it's in, if you're getting depreciation. Mine depreciates because of the lack of services near it, and the lack of amenities. I haven't added on to the house or done any other improvements. You get re-valued of course, when you do.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I haven't added on to the house or done any other improvements. You get re-valued of course, when you do.

For example, if I added new rooms to the house, or a garage or a shop, these would be taxed by square footage and condition. As time goes by the condition part of it, depreciates. Same with any new construction. Even if it's in like-new condition and you've been maintaining it great, over time the valuation depreciates typically.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Also in Texas, there's the Homestead exemption. If it is your primary residence you don't pay the school tax. Now, if you own a bunch of rent houses yes you do pay the full load on those. Because you don't live there and it's a business. There's also exemptions for age.

 

[we_are_borg]

For 18 million population. Try it for 390 million (2020 US estimate) or for 700 million million (7 billion) for the whole planet. Which is after all, what the thread is about.

Would not matter if it works for 18 million it works for 500 million the money involved is more.

 

[we_are_borg]

In the US the workers don't pay for unemployment at all, the employer does. It's called "Unemployment Insurance" and it is administered by the state. If an employer fires someone it must be for good reason and he must be able to prove it, otherwise his rates skyrocket.

Its 3 ways workers, employer and state all chip in. Thats why its limited to two years this will go up next year to 30 months because economics are better then 10 years ago in the past it was 3 years. But here in the Netherlands we make sure people can still live when they do not have work or got fired.