92% of my users prefer IPS over Xenforo

[zoldos]

Perhaps you should take a fresh look at it...it is one hell of a solution, and very friendly people

Sounds cool. How much is it? I've really modded my XF forum tho and it has a lot of content (like 70,000 some pictures) and a sh*tload of plugins, so I can't switch. hehe

 

[ibaker]

I can put you on to someone who can help you with any changes you need in IPS including replicating a mode and he is very cheap. I used him and trusted him to do what ever was needed. He is listed as a resource on the IPS site as A Zayed. I have both an XF site and IPS site and I use him all the time for the IPS stuff

 

[zoldos]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm quite happy with XF, and the way everything is setup took me a very long time. I'd rather not change it at this juncture.

 

[haqzore]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm quite happy with XF, and the way everything is setup took me a very long time. I'd rather not change it at this juncture.

A good thing to know. Kudos to you on knowing what's best for your community at this time

 

[Deleted member 3691]

I have to say, selling licenses for software sounds like a huge mess.

No wonder so many companies are going for Software as a Service as their business models, so much less headache. The ironic thing about this is that the prices will make you cry compared to anything you'd pay for a license.

Indeed, most services are a flat annual or monthly fee. You don't get to pay once, and then micro payments to keep it updated.

You get incredible value with both xF and Invision Community when you think about it.

When we released v4, which was a total rewrite from v3 and introduced so many new features, people downloaded it for no extra cost if they had an active license, or they paid $25 to get the software (and we had a lot of people re-activate licenses that had not been touched for 5 years for $25).

We valued that v4 cost us about $1,500,000 in dev hours to create.

I have a friend (yes, they do exist) who pays £399 every single year to access an online service that creates short videos. If you look at services like LeadPages which can cost $199/month for all the features, our license costs are not expensive.

 

[ibaker]

But Matt M doesn't come down to the size of the client base? Those companies that have a small client base would need to charge a higher annual rate to stay in business than those that have a large one.

But also I suppose it can also come down to lower pricing can increase a client base when in a competitive environment. In marketing there is the 4 P's of marketing (Price, Place, Product, Promotion) and the BCG's Product Matrix that defines your product place in the matrix (Star, Cash Cow, Question Mark, Dog). Combining these two pilosophies with a competive matrix will define the best placement and pricing for your product.

 

[haqzore]

But Matt M doesn't come down to the size of the client base? Those companies that have a small client base would need to charge a higher annual rate to stay in business than those that have a large one.

Not necessarily.

Look at Adobe Creative Cloud, Microsoft 365, and countless others.

SaaS seems to be the way of the future.

 

[HallofFamer]

well IPS was indeed more feature-rich when compared to Xenforo, at least this was true before XF 2.0. I havent kept up with XF 2.x so I cant make comments about the current situation.

 

[MarkFL]

I would agree that IPS is more feature rich than XF, but XF is much more consistently stable from day to day. On the IPS site I help admin, it seems like there's a new inexplicable quirk that arises on a weekly basis.

We find every time we run an update, usergroup permissions and other settings frequently get changed and it's a real pain to track those down.

Right now, notifications have been rendered pretty much useless for the social community running IPS I help admin. We used to see unread notifications in bold, and read notifications not bolded. This made sense to everyone. Now the bolding depends on whether the content to which it points is has unread content associated with it. So, you really can't tell at a glance which notifications you've read before and which are old.

Another example, just last night the CKeditor now retains post content, even when a post is submitted. Things like this just suddenly appear. IPS is a great forum software overall, but it is very quirky.

 

[DanielF]

We find every time we run an update, usergroup permissions and other settings frequently get changed and it's a real pain to track those down.

I haven't heard this before. Did you submit a ticket for this?

 

[MarkFL]

I haven't heard this before. Did you submit a ticket for this?

I'm just a tech/coder admin, not the actual owner.

 

[deslocotoco]

I would agree that IPS is more feature rich than XF, but XF is much more consistently stable from day to day. On the IPS site I help admin, it seems like there's a new inexplicable quirk that arises on a weekly basis.

We find every time we run an update, usergroup permissions and other settings frequently get changed and it's a real pain to track those down.

Right now, notifications have been rendered pretty much useless for the social community running IPS I help admin. We used to see unread notifications in bold, and read notifications not bolded. This made sense to everyone. Now the bolding depends on whether the content to which it points is has unread content associated with it. So, you really can't tell at a glance which notifications you've read before and which are old.

Another example, just last night the CKeditor now retains post content, even when a post is submitted. Things like this just suddenly appear. IPS is a great forum software overall, but it is very quirky.

That's the issue with every "big systems/softwares", in my humble opinion.

The bugs just show up without a apparent reason or cause (sounds like my old open sources forums), the Support don't know how to fix and the final user, well, you, just have to get over it with our own hands.

Last week i helped my father bussiness. He use a software for managing everything for the last 15 years and almost works perfectly, like a manageable thing for the final user (and I'm not mentioning the need of a full capable server on the spot to make the software work).

3 or 4 years ago, a big, a very big company here in Brazil, real big like total monopoly in the software market, bought this little company who used to make this good software.

Now this software is a completely mess with resources that nobody use, bugs, corporate and financial bureaucracy, the technical support practically doesn't exist, you spend hours in the telephone line to reach the proper support or other bull**** that you need because the program is locked down for no apparent reason.

Well, last week i helped my father to find another software for his job. Found a new software, better, lighter, smoother, can be used in a smartphone, PC and Mac, online and offline, a nice UI (my father is a old man), better resources, better support, more cheap (HALF the price, like 60% more cheap) and a personal assistant to train the staff (and my father), with free database migration. The installation was a simple click on the software.exe and that's it.

This new software was made by a very small company who is trying to catch a piece of the market. I'm totally on board.

This is one the reasons that i opted to go for XenForo than any other.

In my humble experience: Big companies/corporations = bad thing for the final user.

 

[DanielF]

That's the issue with every "big systems/softwares", in my humble opinion.

The issue is IMO that people don't report such problems to us, so how should we be aware and help with issues like

We find every time we run an update, usergroup permissions and other settings frequently get changed and it's a real pain to track those down.

I can't remember that I've ever seen this before.

 

[deslocotoco]

The issue is IMO that people don't report such problems to us, so how should we be aware and help with issues like

Well, that's is because devs and software companies start from the principle that every user of the product have enough technical skills to understand what is a software, what is a bug and what is a malfunction. People don't know that.

And that's a very common error, because people aren't like us, who have a little more understanding of the digital world.

The very majority of the people don't even understand why the power button turns on the computer and this can be applied to every aspect of digital products. They all think that this device is some kind of voodoo magic box. That's it.

Try to read reviews on App Store or Google Store and see what happen in the real world. It's very funny.

I don't want to pass the impression that I'm a arrogant person, but in the same way, i don't understand how the CERN works. Well, there is a window there when the scientists guys can see the atoms shocking and splashing with each other with a magnifier? I don't know. But i can do some research to understand the process.

The problem is: almost nobody do that.

We live in a Instagram society and the maximum capacity of the general common user is to touch the screen with the finger to give a heart, roll the screen down and move to left and right. Tipping? No way man. People use emojis now.

This is our "modern" society.

Now I'm sad.

 

[R0binHood]

Well, that's is because devs and software companies start from the principle that every user of the product have enough technical skills to understand what is a software, what is a bug and what is a malfunction. People don't know that.

People do know that. It's just that many don't know how to act when they encounter a problem. It's up to us to give them to tools to better report their issues.

I think often bugs will just go unreported completely too by users, unless they're major issues - and the user is savvy enough to make a report. It takes a pretty big issue for someone to care enough to make a dedicated feedback thread on some forums.

I would quite like to see some kind of help or feedback mechanism baked into the core of all forum software to more easily solicit user feedback.

XF used to have a nice help link/icon next to the notification area, which then dissapeared one day. It would have been the perfect mini menu to direct users to the dedicated curated help pages, instead of sticking those links in the footer, and also enable them to submit feedback if they have issues or problems.

Most of the major software suites do that these days. I installed a 3rd party widget that did this on one of my sites for a while and got some really interesting feedback from users. I can't remember the exact service I used, but it was something like this https://bugyard.io/




Office has built in feedback tools now:




GSuite has built in feedback and bug reporting tools. I like the idea of the simple question mark icon menu to guide you to normal help pages, but also provide feedback. It also gives you the option to add screenshots for those who don't know how to use a snipping tool or do any kind of editing.



Facebook also has a mechanism for this:



We're way behind on this.

 

[MarkFL]

The issue is IMO that people don't report such problems to us, so how should we be aware and help with issues like
I can't remember that I've ever seen this before.

I can appreciate the fact that if IPS support isn't aware of an issue, they have no chance of trying to address it. I get that, honestly I do. It would be something very difficult to verify except to take screenshots of all the settings pages immediately before and after an update. All I know is very frequently we find soon after an update that some setting(s) is.are different than either of us recalls it being. Unless either of us is trying to gaslight the other, I don't know what other explanation there could be, which of course could be a fallacy of incredulity.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the disappearance of the SQL toolbox, which used to allow me to supply the community with custom stats they enjoyed, and the issue with notifications I posted about. I know this thread is not the place to get resolution of these issues though.

 

[ibaker]

Sorry, I haven't been on the site for a long time but I noticed the gist of the thread turned to the consumer acts in regards to software. In Australia with software done in the way that XF and IPS sell their licenses a sale is deemed to have been made at the initial purchase NOT each year that a licensed is renewed thus the terms and conditions remain in force and subject to the full extent of the Australian Consumer Guarantee act from the initial purchase. This was the findings of a case that came across my desk a little while ago. Now if say XF changed the conditions of the use of their support forums and although not explicitly stated as inclusive in the original sale, what they provided and portrayed at the time of sale can be deemed as inclusive (as not explicitly excluded) of the sale and that includes the terms and conditions of their support forums at the time of sale. It has been tested and is not for me to explain everything but the onus lies in the companies themselves to be fully familiar with ALL the consumer laws ALL around the world if their product is available to be purchased ALL around the world. Recently I was advised by my legal representative that online companies are starting to come under the spot light and a discussion was then had about the difficulties of enforcement but I think that day may come when it becomes easier for consumers to have a fallback...maybe???

Anyway, my IPS site at www.recreationalflying.com is screaming ahead and whilst I still have a lot more to do I have become so impressed with the extent of what you can create in IPS, a complete website and not just a Facebook clone and the IPS support forums are a pleasure to post in, I am thinking of moving my XF Off Topic forum over to IPS and creating something fantastic with that as well...Thanks Matt M and everyone at IPS

 

[Joel R]

People do know that. It's just that many don't know how to act when they encounter a problem. It's up to us to give them to tools to better report their issues.

I think often bugs will just go unreported completely too by users, unless they're major issues - and the user is savvy enough to make a report. It takes a pretty big issue for someone to care enough to make a dedicated feedback thread on some forums.

I would quite like to see some kind of help or feedback mechanism baked into the core of all forum software to more easily solicit user feedback.

XF used to have a nice help link/icon next to the notification area, which then dissapeared one day. It would have been the perfect mini menu to direct users to the dedicated curated help pages, instead of sticking those links in the footer, and also enable them to submit feedback if they have issues or problems.

Most of the major software suites do that these days. I installed a 3rd party widget that did this on one of my sites for a while and got some really interesting feedback from users. I can't remember the exact service I used, but it was something like this https://bugyard.io/

View attachment 53075


Office has built in feedback tools now:

View attachment 53081


GSuite has built in feedback and bug reporting tools. I like the idea of the simple question mark icon menu to guide you to normal help pages, but also provide feedback. It also gives you the option to add screenshots for those who don't know how to use a snipping tool or do any kind of editing.

View attachment 53079

Facebook also has a mechanism for this:

View attachment 53080

We're way behind on this.

I just saw this post.

IPS includes the ability to submit support tickets directly through the ACP.

The tool also troubleshoots common issues by checking for patches, clearing the cache, giving the option to disable third party apps and plugins, and reverting to the default theme. And of course, you can submit a ticket directly to IPS Support from your site. We've had this feature since Day 1 of Invision Community 4.0.

 

[DanielF]

Just for clarification..

We've had the support tools there from day1, but they weren't THAT powerful as they're now. We're frequently improving them to make them even more powerful.

Anyway, my IPS site at www.recreationalflying.com is screaming ahead and whilst I still have a lot more to do I have become so impressed with the extent of what you can create in IPS, a complete website and not just a Facebook clone and the IPS support forums are a pleasure to post in, I am thinking of moving my XF Off Topic forum over to IPS and creating something fantastic with that as well...Thanks Matt M and everyone at IPS

I remember the trouble you were facing a while ago, glad to see that you're really pleased with our product now

 

[tomk]

Sorry, I haven't been on the site for a long time but I noticed the gist of the thread turned to the consumer acts in regards to software. In Australia with software done in the way that XF and IPS sell their licenses a sale is deemed to have been made at the initial purchase NOT each year that a licensed is renewed thus the terms and conditions remain in force and subject to the full extent of the Australian Consumer Guarantee act from the initial purchase. This was the findings of a case that came across my desk a little while ago. Now if say XF changed the conditions of the use of their support forums and although not explicitly stated as inclusive in the original sale, what they provided and portrayed at the time of sale can be deemed as inclusive (as not explicitly excluded) of the sale and that includes the terms and conditions of their support forums at the time of sale. It has been tested and is not for me to explain everything but the onus lies in the companies themselves to be fully familiar with ALL the consumer laws ALL around the world if their product is available to be purchased ALL around the world. Recently I was advised by my legal representative that online companies are starting to come under the spot light and a discussion was then had about the difficulties of enforcement but I think that day may come when it becomes easier for consumers to have a fallback...maybe???

Anyway, my IPS site at www.recreationalflying.com is screaming ahead and whilst I still have a lot more to do I have become so impressed with the extent of what you can create in IPS, a complete website and not just a Facebook clone and the IPS support forums are a pleasure to post in, I am thinking of moving my XF Off Topic forum over to IPS and creating something fantastic with that as well...Thanks Matt M and everyone at IPS

Wait. So you went XF -> IPS -> XF -> and IPS again?